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YOUR RESEARCHLN Engineering Sump Guard Plate Review
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mounting locations
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My assumption is that the noise is due to the mounting locations.
Leading evidence: 'mounting locations' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'mounting locations' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust some things' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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We use in an Automotive OEM setting for similar issues (not sure what the root of the issue is though).
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I thoroughly cleaned the skid plate with Optimum No Rinse followed by a Lysol wipe.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
So loud i really though i F'd up big time when i installed the 2 Qt Deep Sump Kit.
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Suggestion · Original poster
Mainly I was looking for any leaks or suspension bolts that might have loosened (I use TorqueSeal/paint so I can visually see if any bolts/nuts have loosened) and checking for other items I should be concerned with.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Guys, I just installed the 2 quart deep sump and skid plate from LNE on my 02 C4S, like other I had to modify the plate a bit so it will clear the bottom of the sump, now I have 1/4 clearance all around.
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Suspected cause
Obviously you are aware of the spots but for the sake of the conversation i suspect its due to the rear most mount being also attached to the exhaust and engine.
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Also I had a rattle when I first installed it, this was because the plate touching the sump, I had to bend the plate a bit more in the front so it will clear the sump, this fixed the rattle, but it did nothing for the whining noise.
LN Engineering Sump Guard Plate Review
I purchased an LN Engineering sump guard plate(106-00.9) to replace the Porsche skid plate(996-107-981-00) that I currently own.
Why a skid plate?
I decided to add the Porsche skid plate(pictured above) soon after I purchased it.
My 996 came with The IMS Solution already installed.
The direct feed oil line hangs down below the factory sump, so I thought it might be a good idea to add a skid plate so that if I ran over anything it couldn't snag the oil line.
As you can see below, the Porsche skid plate doesn't protect the oil line as I'd hoped.
The Porsche skid plate attaches to the engine using existing bolts.
It is a very simple 5 minute installation.
You only need a 10mm wrench, or better yet a ratchet and socket.
No jacking up the car necessary if your 996 is stock USA height.
As you can see below the Porsche skid plate has done it's job protecting the sump.
Here in the Houston area, like most urban areas, there is constantly road construction going on.
When they work on streets in commercial areas, they leave a business access route which cuts across the construction area.
This construction access many times is just some piled up dirt so you can get into a parking lot.
A couple of times I had to turn into a parking lot and I heard my Porsche skid plate contact the concrete when entering the parking lot.
My car is stock height, so if a car is lowered, it is definitely likely to bottom out.
The 1.5"/40mm access hole in the Porsche skid plate is a bit narrow and you can end up with oil running down the skid plate instead of it going into your drain pan.
I suggest removing it before changing your oil.
Luckily it is easy to remove and only adds a few minutes to an oil change.
OK, but why replace your skid plate?
I plan on installing an LN Engineering 2qt deep sump kit in a couple of weeks.
The Porsche skid plate won't fit the engine without modifications.
I decided I'd replace the Porsche skid plate with the LN Engineering sump guard plate since it is designed to fit engines with or without deep sumps.
Also they advertise their "sump guard does not bolt directly to the engine like the original factory skid plate, providing superior protection to both the sump AND engine."
They also advertise that you can perform oil changes without removal.
The access hole in the LN Engineering sump guard plate is 2.742"/69mm, so hopefully it can remain in place during oil changes since it is more difficult to remove and install.
Porsche skid plate prices have skyrocketed in the last year, so I can sell my existing Porsche skid plate for 1/2 price and recoup my purchase price. (Win-win)
The LN Engineering sump guard plate is about the same thickness as the Porsche skid plate, but the material is stainless steel instead of the smaller Porsche which is lightweight aluminum skid plate.
Therefore it is a LOT heavier.
The LN Engineering sump guard plate weighs 9.13lbs/4.14kg, where as the smaller skid plate is 1.72lbs/.78kg.
If you�re thinking about buying a $300 skid plate,
make sure it is the LN Engineering one!
It can be installed on cars with or without a deep sump kit.
The only obvious negative is the LN Engineering one is heavier and the install is more time consuming.
If you can't afford the LN Engineering sump guard plate, try to find a used Porsche skid plate.
The Porsche skid plate is much better than a naked sump!
Note:
Installing the LN Engineering sump guard plate is going to require jacking up the car and putting it on jack stands, so I decided to not install it at this time, but wait a couple more weeks until I install the deep sump kit.
I'll update this review if I notice anything interesting.
You or your mechanic might want to check the install of oil feed line from the filter to the bearing . I have the IMS Solution installed and the oil line does not hang down at all - in fact it looks like the oil filter is the lowest point most at risk.
I installed the two quart deep sump kit plus the skid plate a few months ago. I had to loosen the exhaust bracket bolts near the rear of the engine and back them out about a quarter of an inch to get off the two bolts that hold the rear of the sump. It is a bit of a tight squeeze, but they do come out.
My driveway has a moderate slope and I scraped the skid plate backing out of the garage. I didn't even make it 10 feet! I have scraped it a few times since then. The skid plate is a necessity with the deep sump.
I�ve wondered about it, but it was installed by someone with the last name of Raby, so I haven�t touched it.
Of course the previous owner may have had some work on it and they may have moved it.
I think it will be fine once the LN sump guard is in place.
No, nothing really special.
If you have a brake press, a way to cut stainless steel, and have time to figure out the correct shape and bends, you could make your own.
It would have been nice if it had an LN Engineering or Porsche logo, that would be cool.
The Porsche skid plate is not worth $300+.
The were available for $150 last year.
Tex.
If you purchased the skid plate from LN recently, did they confirm that they have fixed the production issue they were having? They sent me two, both did not fit (they were hitting the pan). They told me they had a production issue, and just had me return both of them.
I ended up finding a used one (which had been modified a bit to fit) it was also half price which was nice. I have also found, as has someone else I track with that the plate can cause a whirring noise at certain RPMs. Almost like a bad bearing. Freaked me out at first, but got used to it. In the off season, I may try to adjust some things to get it to go away.
Overall great product, and I would not consider running the deep sump without it. My first track event after the install, spun and backed up over high curbing. The plate took the hit, not the pan.
"The Porsche skid plate is not worth $300+. The were available for $150 last year."
I think I paid $125 about a year and a half ago... That's some serious inflation!
No, they didn't.
I guess I'll find out if there is an issue when I install it.
That will probably be a couple of weekends away.
Glad to know it might add some unnerving sounds!
Thanks for letting me know.
WEll, I installed my deep sump kit and then the sump guard today.
I also experienced a fitment issue.
It was making contact with one of the bumps on the bottom sump plate.
I opened a ticket with LN Engineering and they called me very quickly. (1 hour 18 minutes later)
I was in line to vote, so I welcomed the distraction.
Their suggestion was to bend it myself or have them send me another.
I opted to bend it myself using a dead blow hammer and a scrap of 4x4 wood.
It fits perfectly now!
I’m very happy it is there considering I have an inch less of clearance. Actually I made the sump guard hang an additional half inch below the sump.
So inch and a half less clearance now.
Here are some pictures:
I had the 2 quart deep sump and skid plate from LNE on my 2003 C2. It hung really low and was not esthetic at all. I guess the cost of protecting the engine on the track. If I did it over I would have just done an Accusump instead.
Guys, I just installed the 2 quart deep sump and skid plate from LNE on my 02 C4S, like other I had to modify the plate a bit so it will clear the bottom of the sump, now I have 1/4 clearance all around.
The Plate looks like it will protect the engine well but I do have a major issue and it is related to noise. The noise in the cabin while the car is on gear is horrendous, it sounds like a transmission with straight gears, actually it sounds more like a race car with racing trany, bad bearings and no insulation.
I know some of you have had this for a while, has anyone done anything to minimize this noise, or are you all just living with it.
It start as soon as the car starts moving, it sounds like bad bearing, in combination of the wining a strait gear trany would make. It is very annoying. It is specially loud with the windows closed.
I think I am going to remove the skid plate tomorrow all together to verify that it is what is causing the noise. I am not a big believer in coincidences, but who knows, something else could have good bad. It is very loud.
Yes, mine is a little noisy, but not horrible.
I’m considering using this to get reduce noise some:
https://store.secondskinaudio.com/sp...n-made-in-usa/
Hmmm, that product looks interesting. Are you thinking of coating the skid plate? The noise could be just the plate vibrating, applying this coating may reduce/eliminate the resonance caused by the vibration.
What is the noise like, or coming from? I have one on the bench waiting to go on (along with a 2qt sump and 997 oil tubes), and I was under the impression that it is better than the (smaller) factory skid that is on there now. Isn�t it firmly mounted? I�d like to plan ahead if I need to do something to address noise issues.
I'm thinking about applying it to the top of the sump guard.
That way it won't show, and it should stop any noise due to vibration.
I'm fairly certain that's what causes the noise from mine.
When I first installed it I had a had rattle when the engine was above idle.
I re-tightened everything and the rattle went away, but there's still a slight hum from vibration.
When you have someone rev up the engine and you hold the plate you can feel the vibration.
This is of course on a long list of things I want to do to my car.
(roll bar install, AOS, lowering the coilovers, sump guard sound deadening)
I'm not sure how soon I'll get around to it.
I currently have the sump guard removed.
I removed it when I did the water pump a couple of weeks ago and decided I'd keep it off until I can add some sound deadening.
If it looks like it will be a long time, I will probably put it back on.
We've never had a report of added noise. I have run one on my Boxster for years, but I have solid trans mounts, so there is a bit more noise already. Porsche uses dynamat like pads in strategic spots. It may be something that adding a pad of dynamat may solve the resonance issue.
On mine, it sounds like a high pitched hum.
I think it is because it is so large of a piece of stainless steel and there is no attachment in the middle.
It is better than the factory sump guard.
It is thicker metal and it attaches to the frame of the car, not the engine case.
I have some old Dynamat that I've probably had for 20 years now.
I was going to put that on mine, but when I checked to see if it could be added to the outside of a vehicle, I never found any suggestions that it would be OK.
I've considered trying some just to see.
But then I found the sound deadening I posted above which is good for outside.
@Kris Murphy
said they have added noise too.
Yeah. I have an occasional rattle, and the whirring hum. It does not happen all of the time, just at certain RPMs. I'll look to add something at some point, but since the car is mostly driven on the track, it does not bother me, since you cannot hear it over the track noise.
My car has a god awful whine to it after it is warmed up, especially on de-acceleration.
I thought it was the Numeric Shift cables, but maybe it is the skid plate.
Can you record with your phone and upload a audio of the noise?
OK, so I can confirm the skid plate generates, or magnifies the noise. I removed it and the car is back to its normal noise level.
One thing I tried before removing it, thinking the plate was vibrating, I jammed a piece of rubber hose between the skid plate and the sump cover, this did not make any difference on the noise level. Also I had a rattle when I first installed it, this was because the plate touching the sump, I had to bend the plate a bit more in the front so it will clear the sump, this fixed the rattle, but it did nothing for the whining noise.
I have a DE event this Saturday so I am going to run the car without the Skid plate, after I will regroup and see what to do. I only have 4 1/4" clearance between the bottom of the sump and the ground, I do drive the car on the streets a lot I think I am going to replace the 2Q sump with the 1/2Q one +x51 baffles and call it a day. It is unlikely I be running full slicks any time soon, and it is my understanding the the 1/2Q setup as described should be good enough.
Any update on this issue? I installed mine yesterday and waited till today to put oil in it. Car sat on the lift running for a half hour to make sure no leaks. Everything was perfect. I left the shop a few hours ago and thought i messed something up bad. The noise is horrible. Every worst possible scenario ran thru my head. The noise in the cabin is horrible from 1500 to 3500. 3000 sounds like the engine is coming apart. I went back to work, took the skid plate off and the noise is gone. Put it back on and what the hell!! Someone please tell me they found a fix for this.
Also to add, the noise is not heard outside the car and not at idle.
Couple ideas..
Might ave a sheet metal shop roll a X bead on the bottom surface,
It should make the plate more rigid and kill some of the oscillation in the plate.
My bike uses 2 square blocks of rubber in between the skid and the oil pan..
Other than here, we haven't had any calls from shops putting these on with this issue. Same at our shop and I had one on my car for several years as well. Is the sump guard making contact with the sump or anything else under the car? I'd like to get to the bottom of this myself and prevent this noise if we can duplicate it.
It is not making contact with the sump. On initial install it was extremely close to the sump but not touching. I had an assistant pull down as much as possible on the skid plate to ensure it would not touch under any load conditions. I would assume it has about 1/2 gap between the skid plate and sump. My assumption is that the noise is due to the mounting locations. Obviously you are aware of the spots but for the sake of the conversation i suspect its due to the rear most mount being also attached to the exhaust and engine. i would think this would cause the noise to travel thru the skid plate and into the body where the front mounting locations are. I watched some other videos online and most said the fix they found was adding rubber strips to the skid plates. In all fairness all of the videos and threads i found via my google search where from motorcycles, dirt bikes and atv's.
I'm going to look into this further with my team and I'll report back. I agree adding some sort of isolator between the plate and the mounting points likely is the solution as you yourself have researched.
I've run into this problem several times on farm equipment, when a flat plate hits resonance with the engine,, diabolically LOUD.
The easiest fix was to either run a couple welds cris-cross the flat part of the part or use a rolling machine to roll a bead across it in 2 directions.
A coat of linex on the inside might also help.
My skid plate is currently off my car waiting for me to try some Dynamat or paint, or some other noise reduction solution.
I just haven't had time to try anything. (and the Dynamat I thought I had has disappeared)
With my "new" louder exhaust, perhaps I should re-install it.
The resonance might disappear with the change in exhaust...but for the better or worse?
I question the same at this point for another reason. This skid plate is a heavy gauge, but being completely flat, how well will it hold up if you happen to go off track. With only a 1/2 inch gap between the plate and the sump plate i wonder how bad it would deflect up and hit the motor. I believe some machine rolled beads would vastly improve the support structure. The noise is bad enough, but more importantly, will it do it's intended job?
I ran over a dead coyote on a country road, while passing a car. Hit it going about 70. Did a number to the front bumper and the rear of the car got air from the skid plate going over it's corpse. Plenty of hair and guts on and in the skid plate.
I've had mine on now for over a year. Still horrible, but since I barely drive on the street, I put up with it. When I backed up over curbing after spinning on the track, the plate took the hit, and not the pan and the plate held held up really well with just a couple scratches.
It would be nice if there was a fix for it. $300 for something that makes your car sound like it is about to explode, and you need to modify with a hammer and a 4x4 before you can use it, seems a bit steep.
Charles Navarro, do the new ones that you are now sending fit, or do they still need to be modified? I wonder if the fact that some of us have had to modify due to the manufacturing issue is what is causing the noise?
We did make an adjustment that as far as we can tell, resolved the issues some were having with fitment. We are investigating a redesign to add side bends. It's more than likely the large flat surface hitting resonance that causes the noise some have experienced.
I'd think a piece of rubber between the plate and the sump about the diameter of a tuna can would let you tell if its the center of the plate.. Not perm, but just for a quick test..
What should the distance be between the skid plate and sump?
I have the 1/2qt sump spacer and an old (thanks Tex) Porsche skid plat that I want to attach. The plate touches the sump if I install it as is.
The factory sump guard attaches to the engine itself. We made sure not to bolt our to the engine as you don't want to transfer the impact to the engine. The sump guard does have some adjustability, so the important thing is to make sure you don't have the guard making contact with the sump.
I have been dealing with the noise for 4/5 months now, it is only noticeable with the windows close. It sounds a lot like a transmission with straight gears and it varies as you go thru the gears. I have learn to ignore the thing, my wife, well not so much.
I have only driven my car twice since i installed it. Even knowing the noise was gonna happen it still made me cringe driving it like i was breaking it every time i got on it.
One thing I didn't add to my previous post is that I installed new motor mounts shortly before installing the sump kit. As Charles stated, the plate is mounted to the body. The engine is suspended above. There was about a half inch clearance between the bottom of the engine and the plate on my car. No noise.
One other thing I thought of is that the rear mounting location is shared with an exhaust mounting bracket. It is possible that vibration/noise is being transferred from the exhaust to the plate.
Thought i would give a minor update. I took the skid plate off while doing other repairs. I happen to have really thick insulating foam tape. I decided to add it to the entire side that faces the sump. While it helped some, i would say the noise is still 70% present.
Has anybody tried a stethoscope on a engine that had the noise and took the plate off?
Can you hear the noise internal to the engine?
Got to wondering what the source of the harmonic might be..
FWIW,, most skid plates use grommets and washers to isolate the bash plate from the bolts.
I installed my LN skid plate today and have to agree with those complaining of increased noise. Anything above idle yields a tremendous amount of noise into the cabin that was not previously noticeable.
In truth i almost hate driving my car since installing mine. I would take it off if it didn't sit so low. I was hoping by this point LN would have reached out with a fix for this
Wow that is a bummer, any chance you can add rubber washers to see if that helps? We use in an Automotive OEM setting for similar issues (not sure what the root of the issue is though).
Google search bolt with rubber washer as an example.
Another idea is a damping sheet, as heavy as possible, we use them all over the car to damp noises and vibrations.
Do you have a 2 quart deep sump? If not you will not need this particular skid plate. This plate is only needed because the 2 qt deep sump sits very very low. If you are stock then there are several options available to you
Agree. Charles is typically all about making things right. Apparently not when it comes to a $300 piece of sheet metal. I have no problem paying for something that meets a need. For example, no problem paying the $700 for the 2qt sump. It's well made and meets a need. I would have no problem paying $300 for a skid plate either, but the fact it transforms the car in a negative way, and the only response we get from Charles is that they have never seen it happen does not feel like an acceptable answer, or the fact that many of them come and they don't fit so you have to bend it to make it fit, only to find out that it makes a ton of noise. I have not tried, but I am sure at that point it could not be returned.
So far i am highly disappointed in the skid plate. The noise is ridiculous. But more importantly i question the structural rigidity of it doing its job. I have had few instances where the skid plate has hit stuff at very low speeds (less than 5mph). Situations like backing out of my driveway and putting the car on a lift and it slightly hits and some speed bumps at the wrong angle. Twice now i have found that the 2 mounting ears at the rear of the car have allowed it to bend up and make contact with the oil pan. this was on very low speed impacts. I am scared to see what happens if i have an off at the track. I know Charles had previously stated he hit a coyote at highway speeds with no issue......i can only pray i am not the test car because i fail to see how a perfectly flat relatively thin piece of metal is going to stop anything at this point. Major thumbs down with this product.
Now the deep sump worked perfect. prior to i had low oil pressure on heavy G turns. That problem is resolved. Major thumbs up on that product!
We have sold literally hundreds of these to other shops and fitted many ourselves in our shop. I can't correct an issue we can't duplicate, however we did add some bends to the part to make it more rigid. Like I said, I have no clue if this will improve the vibration issues some have reported or not since we can't duplicate the issue and have had zero shops who have fitted them call or email us with vibration issues.
It's a work of art. But, I now remember it won't work with the super deep sump kits as it quite a bit thicker than the stock plate/pan. Not sure about the 1/2qt kits though.
Charles. I want to commend you for always taking the time to join into these conversations regardless if its positive or negative. Thats what make you and your company one of the leaders in the industry. I have nothing but good things to say about you and LN Engineering. I completely understand your situation and in truth i am sure it sucks for you to hear these complaints and not be able to solve them as much as it sucks to be the customer who has it. At some point i will do some work on my own side to see if i can correct the problem and will report back my finding. It just frustrating for us, the guys with the ghost issue, to have to deal with it. I'm sure you understand that.
I can tell you that i do not believe its exhaust related specifically. I found that i had a internally broken cat. I was really really hoping that was the issue and the skid plate was resonating it thru the car. Last week i installed a topgear xpipe and topgear headers. Sadly the issue is still the same.
Hi Charles, the increased noise I was getting sounded like increased NVH and wave reflection of the accessory belt and associated mechanicals. If it had increased the rumble of the engine and had a deep tone, no problem. But what I experienced was higher pitched whining from the accessories. Any advice would be great, I'd like to reinstall it.
Thank you. There are very few vendors whose employees, let alone owners like myself, actively participate on the forums and in various private and public groups. I care about every customer and every part we make. I know I can't make everyone happy 100% of the time, but I do try.
Please do report back if you do figure out a solution, whether it's rubber washers or strategic application of something like dynamat, which is used strategically by Porsche in various places for vibration control (like on the aluminum engine cover for the 987). Please send me a PM at your convenience.
Where would you suggest the rubber washers go? Also, any concern about those nuts not being able to torque properly due the the use of rubber washers, or there not being enough thread left? I'm willing to give it a try.
And I am sorry for ragging on this issue. I sure you can't get it to happen, but there are several people here who can. Some that have just removed it after spending $300 on it. Also, the first two you sent me just flat out did not fit. Wasted time of "trying" to install twice, you did take it back. Ended up buying a used one that someone had already modified (which means you sent out several that did not fit). You are now asking us to do R&D for you. Your products are expensive not because of the materials that go into them, but all of the time, research and planning that you need to put into them. If the forum figures this out for you, will the forum get a cut?
As far as those asking about the quality, I can attest that it does do its job. I spun on the track and backed up over curbing, and the plate held up great. Also with the way it is designed I think even if it did bend up and hit the pan, it would take enough of the brunt that it would not damage the motor.
I dont have one so no dog in the fight,, has anybody tried a chunk of rubber hose in a circle between the plate and the engine,,
adn pump it with air to "pad" it?
This is not unique to the Porsche, the skid plates on a VW baja bug are noisy if not mounted with some isolation.
I welded a big X across mine and it killed the harmonic sensitivity many years ago..
The bug one started at the front of the trans and went to the back of the engine.
The rubber washers were recommended by someone else on this post. Perhaps they can detail what they used and where it was placed.
I think I do recall your specific situation. One of the batches was cut wrong, hence why it did not fit. The one we sent you was test fitted to make sure it would go on so as you would not have a fitment issue. We are not in the habit of sending out used, returned parts.
As far as R&D, I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for feedback. Like I have stated previously, we've been selling these for years with the only complaints being off this thread from a few individuals and none of the shops we supply them to or wholesalers have had any complaints. We have not been able to duplicate the issue in our shop having fitted them to numerous cars in the past few years.
Charles,
You actually sent me two that did not fit. After I returned the second, I don't believe you actually offered a solution and I was not willing to try it again. One popped up on Rennlist used, that had been modified to fit as others have had to do (as noted earlier in the thread). I bought that one after returning two to you.
I'll drop it from this point, I know if you could see one doing it, you would work to fix it. I'll also continue to buy your products (I'll soon by buying the MotorSport AOS adapter).
Thank you for the clarification. We rely on an outside vendor to cut and bend these to our specs as we do not have that specific equipment in house and we did have a bad batch. I'm sorry we couldn't square this away for you at the time but the current skid plate has indeed been corrected and additional bends have been added to stiffen it up to hopefully eliminate the vibration some of you have experienced.
I was thinking about the thicker high temp rubber materials too like dirt bikes use between the skid plate and engine to both insulate the sump from impacts telegraphing through the guard, and also are not susceptible to engine heat.
Exactly
My BMW R1200 GSA with Euro bash plate has large maybe 1X1X4 hard rubber protects bottom of case and serves as anti vibration. Runs down the middle of the plate
The 3M material is a special vibration absorbing metal structure. I would love to send some to you to try out as long as the shipping is paid. I acquired it primarily to explore using for exhaust drone but found the adhesive would not withstand exhaust temps however this may be the perfect application. Let me know.
Just saw a video from 3m demonstrating this vibration damping tape, it look promising.
You Tube
Low I am sending you a PM with my shipping info, I wouldn't mind trying this out and posting the results.
Ok folks, I guess I am commited now. The stuff is 1" wide so I am thinking for anyone that wants the stuff I will give you 5 feet cut into section to fit in envelope. PP me $10 as friends and family and that should cover cost should cover my costs. PM me to finalize. Only one requirement...publish you findings
This thread mainly deals with the ln skid that is needed for their extended oil sump. If u have have a factory oil pan setup the factory skid works real well.
Geeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz... these things^^^ were $125 US a few years ago! I should have bought 100 of them - would have been a great investment...
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...RoCTfUQAvD_BwE
BINGO! ITS FINALLY QUIET!
I worked with a certain someone to try to figure this out. We found out while adding rolled bends to the plate would seriously help with the structure and rigidity in case of an impact, it did nothing for the noise i was experiencing. Mine was horrible at 2500 to 3500 rpms. At about 3k it actually sounded like i had also left about 10 nuts and bolts loose to rattle around as well. Really made it unpleasent to drive the car. After spending a little time on the Interwebs I found the most reasonably priced stuff was made by a company called Norico. Turns out Amazon sells a box for $20.00 that covers 10 sqft. I assume its enough to cover 2 or maybe 3 skid plates. The videos from the manufacturer shows its used for all kinds of sound deadening. Figured it was worth the $20 risk. I'm no engineer so i am sure i went way overboard. But i went ahead and covered every square inch of the top side that faces the motor. I made sure to cover the spots where it makes contact and bolts to the car. I am very very pleased to say that this has 100% brought my car back to the way it was before. It was a joy to drive 25 miles home from work.
I will note that i followed the instructions to the letter. In their instructions and the video on Amazon, they point out to make sure it is pressed on with a roller (i used a large socket) and they show a good clip of what it looks like before and after to ensure good contact. As a disclaimer - i am not sure if this product is suitable for situations where its exposed to the elements. My car is never driven in the rain. Someone may want to inquire with the company to verify if concerned. Hate to mislead anyone.
OK, so I have some success as well, using the tape from Lowpue. The youtube link below is a recording of the sounds from inside the car, this was done with the door/windows close and it demonstrate the noise we are referring to. It was recorded with my Iphone X, I am holding the phone about 12inch between the seats.
It is hard to hear any difference because of all the noises involved, but if you concentrate on the the somewhat high pitch whining noise you can hear a bid difference between no shield and shield on.
Bottom line is the tape made a difference, it is not perfect but much quieter, at least on the driveway. I will take the car out on a drive tomorrow (cant today) and I be able to really tell if it made any difference or not. At cruising speeds with the windows close the noise is very noticeable.
You Tube
Hope your "fix" works as well as mine did. I can say with absolute certainty that my noise is 100% gone.
And for those who have not experienced this. That video does NOT do this noise justice. It is LOUD. So loud i really though i F'd up big time when i installed the 2 Qt Deep Sump Kit. I thought for sure i trashed the engine. It's wasn't until i removed the Skid plate and drove it when my heart went back to a happy spot.
Wow....pretty cool, thanks for sharing....I liked your ringing test at the end of the video. It will be interested on how others that I sent the tape to fin it. I may try it on the heat sheilds of my son's boxster which rattles on start up.
Did you modify your plate? The mounting point holes close to the rear bumper are not open on mine, they are holes, not slots so your have to remove the bolts to install. I know that they have made some changes to the plate recently, your set up lookings like it would be 1000% easier to install.
mine has holes not open slots too. That is the #1 reason it isn't on my car yet. I tried to install it, and it was a pain.
proposed layout of the "Lowpue strips" (patent pending, lol).
I can't take any credit for that. My original plate was like yours. The one you see pictured is the latest version from LN Engineering. The newest version fits better and is much easier to install for that reason exactly. My original plate only allowed about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of clearence between the plate and the sump plate. I had added some foam padding to my original plate in the hopes it would quiet it down. It did - but maybe 15% . When i took it off it actually had depressed the foam and made marks where the sump was hitting. The new version from LN has rolled edges on the perimeter to make the plate much more rigid. The old one was easy to bend and flex by hand. This one does not flex at all. It also has the cut outs you noticed for easier install. While i am happy it makes it easier to install, i liked the other one because it added a layer of protection in case the nuts were to vibrate loose the plate could not drop. However even though the newest version is much more rigid and fit and finish and 100 times better, it still sounded exactly the same. It was only after i added the sound deadening that it was back to the way it was before i installed the 2 qt sump kit and plate. I have emailed all this info to Charles and my understanding is the team at LN Engineering and Bilt Racing are working on a fix behind the scenes.
I have had a few messages back and forth with Charles @ LN. I can assure you he is willing to do what it take to improve this situation. But being a mechanic myself, i can understand how difficult it is for them to fix a problem that they cant replicate in house. Too bad none of us live close enough that we could take our cars too them.
my old one is exactly as pictured. I'm sure you could just take a cut off wheel and make it like the one i have. Then install is easy. I am curious to know if the 3M strips will work as well as my Noico pads. Especially since you guys are using a small percentage of product compared to my fully covered unit.
Here is the clip on Amazon that i saw that made me buy it.
Link to Amazon to puchase
here
Note: in my earlier post i mentioned i was not sure if this product was intended for use in the elements. In this video they state "this product is designed to be used up to a temp range of 400 degrees. It means it will not melt nor fall off in any weather conditions hot or cold"
You Tube
They may not work as well. But if they are located correctly, to dampen the high vibration nodes in the open space, it will be effective. Covering the whole plate is overkill, but easy. Finding just the right placement of smaller segments will be more difficult, but definitely feasible.
I agree. I assumed my version was overkill. But at how many times its been on and off and for how much product i had for $20.00 i figured go big or go home. Some one with more patience then me will be able to figure out how much is right.
For record keeping, this is how I placed the 3M tape on mine, it made a difference but it is not 100%.
My concern with the Noico 80, is that all over their description they always say it must be placed inside the car, I am not sure if that is because exposure concerns or because that is the best place for it to work. You are correct for $20 it is worth the try and see how long it lasts. If after I drive the car I am still not happy I will try the Noico.
I will be happy to update down the road on the Noico. But i may not be the best test car as my car is a weekend toy, never in the rain but it does see a lot of track duty now so i will get the heat test.
Well I just installed the 3M strips to mine and it is a
LOT
better, but there is still some added noise inside the cabin.
But I might be able to live with it. ( I might like it too)
I‘ll find out this week commuting 52 miles daily.
I tried a Slightly different pattern than shft22, and took a picture, but it has disappeared from my phone.
I made an X with the two parallel pieces.
If it bothers me, I‘ll add the Noico and let y’all know.
Well I got 1/4 of the way through my commute and had to turn back due to high water.
LOTS of rain this morning.
The additional noise from the skid plate is definitely acceptable and I don�t think I�ll be adding more sound deadening material.
The noise is very minor.
The skid plate is reflecting engine sounds.
Heavy rain was a lot louder than the noise.
I fully tested the stick-ability of the 3M material this morning.
I�ll get underneath and check closer that all the pieces are still there this weekend.
Thanks a LOT Lowpue!!!
I�m glad they showed how to open the box!
I have dozens of boxes full of stuff I�ve ordered from Amazon and I haven�t figured out how to open the boxes they�re in.
The video does make me want to get the $20 box (or a larger amount) to use for sound deadening inside my car.
Just an update. I sent an Email to a Noico Distributor asking their opinion of the product for my intended use. Not the answer i was hoping for. Just wanted to be transparent in my testing.
Good Day Mike!
Thank you for contacting us!
Unfortunately, the way that the material was installed in your vehicle is not an optimal installation for our product. Our material is to be installed only from the interior side of a vehicle to better perform its function and to serve long. In your situation, the material will continue being exposed to sand and gravel from the road and will be being damaged. Unfortunately, in such circumstances, you will have to replace the material in future due to its low wear resistance. We apologize but the material is intended to be installed only from the interior side of a vehicle and is not supposed to be exposed to sand and gravel.
Please also keep in mind that none of our products can be installed into the engine compartment or close to other high heat sources due to the temperature restriction. Feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions or need further assistance.
Best regards,
STP Atlantic Team
Well yesterday�s driving was not too bad.
but part of that was the noise from the rain/water on the road.
Today I had to do a lot more driving than normal.
The noise got to me after about 100 miles.
The noise is not horrible, but it distracts from the normal ear pleasing sound from my Fabspeed exhaust.
I removed it this evening.
Here�s a picture of how I placed the 3M material.
I think I�ll get the Noico stuff and use it on the skid plate during track days, but it will stay in the garage while daily driving so I don�t have to turn on the radio.
If the Noico stuff lasts 2 days that would be fine with me.
So I was finally able to take the car out, I am disappointed to report that while the 3m tape made a bit of a difference, mostly by eliminating some of the higher frequency whining noise, most of it is still there at speeds. It definitely made a difference but no much.
Next thing I am going to try is to isolate the rear (attached to the engine) bolts with some rubber washers. I am thinking this noise may be coming from the water pump bearing or some other rotating piece and the cover is just amplifying it. Strange part is with the windows open I can not hear it at all, only with the windows close is the noise very apparent.
I guess my hearing must be shot. After I installed mine with rubber washers or grommets a couple years ago, can't remember which, I don't hear any extra noise. I have the Fiister exhaust mod so that may help mask the noise. I'm planning to install the LN 0.5 qt sump extender in a few weeks and hopefully that won't create this problem.
I also used lock nuts (plastic inside the nut type) and so the nuts don't loosen up.
I think if you just cover the edges of the Noico stuff with some aluminum tape (so the gooey part doesn't pick up sand) it'll be fine for a long time... I think they're being a little precious about their product... I say use it if it works! If it gets beat up, scrape it off and put new stuff on. That 10 sqft. box should be good for a bunch of applications...
I agree, they sell their own aluminum tape to cover the borders, but you can find the stuff at Home Depot on the AC duct isle. I wouldn't expect the stuff to get hit by much road debri since it is on top of the guard. My guard looks brand new on the top side after a couple of thousand miles and 3 DE day worth of use.
Update on the Noico product
Just spent the past weekend at Sebring International Raceway doing a HPDE. I had a total of about 4 hours of actual track time over the weekend. Just had the chance to get the car on the lift for inspection and i can say the Noico shows no signs of heat damage or delamination. I even tried to pull it up in a few spots just to check and its staying put.
I even washed the car before and after the event and intentionally got it wet to see what would happen.
So far so good!
I purchased a Noico kit and installed it on the sump guard this afternoon.
I added aluminum tape (bought for my blend door) on the seams.
I’m going to install it on my 996 tomorrow.
I‘ll be the daily driver tester.
But unfortunately I won’t be commuting daily until April 1st.
Oh, it took 3 sheets out of the ten in the box.
I used a roller that was recommended by Amazon and a utility knife.
I thoroughly cleaned the skid plate with Optimum No Rinse followed by a Lysol wipe.
I installed the Noico sheets over the 3M tape.
I installed it this morning.
Unfortunately I had to do a brake job for someone right afterwards.
(It was a warranty job that required a caliper repair as well.
Failed caliper caused rotor/pads to need early replacement.
All 4 rotors, pads, and two calipers rebuilt.)
Once I cleaned up I was too tired to test drive my 996.
I plan to get up early tomorrow and go for a long drive.
Okay - today I installed the NOICO stuff. I can report that it works. No more noises. I did have to bend the plate a bit more (picture of the "break" I used).
Below is also a picture of how in installed the NOICO stuff. I used two sheets of the 10 that came in the pack. If anyone else wants some of the stuff that is left over, I have enough for 4 more. PM and if you shoot me $5 for shipping, I'll send it out.
Brake.
I've used my cars several times to bend or straighten skid plates for my rally cars. That photo didn't even register as odd. It was more...yep...
You know, I have close to 10,000 posts here. You can be sure, I have gone back to edit a fair percentage of them. Some for various reasons, but most for spelling mistakes.
I was editor of a small magazine/ newsletter and have written a number of articles for other publications. One sure way to be turned away; is to not proofread your work.
LOLO, I think I was misspelling a misspelled word.
My spelling has gotten worse with age. I can't even spell words I used to know by heart !! And to think I was Spelling Bee Champ in 4th Grade..
But of course!
I think the Noico stuff eliminates about 95% of the noise.
There is still a little bit of sound difference.
I could tell you for certain if it was on the car or not.
But for this old deaf guy, I'm happy.
I haven't gotten the car out much the last week.
My current commute is about 15 seconds, and the only stop and go traffic is an old dog getting in my way.
I really miss driving my 996!
I've been sleeping 2 hours later than normal...maybe tomorrow I'll go for a long drive before work.
I wish to buy a sump/skid plate, but I don't really want to re-engineer the wheel. If I have missed something here, please let me know. Therefore I have a couple of silly questions to bring this back on track and see if I followed the thread correctly:
1. Have to cover the sump plate with sound deadening tape/material to relieve drone sound? This fixes most of the problem?
2. Rubber grommets/washers to be used for installing to frame, but did not see any results discussed?
Some really funny stuff too guys. I love this forum when it gets winding up on the fun stuff. Keeps a smile on and I appreciate the humour of everyone.
Nick
correct
I took mine for a quick 3 mile drive today.
I didn�t notice any noise.
I was enjoying the exhaust note too much.
I didn�t use any, but there is sound deadening material between the sump plate and the frame.
Just a bunch of nuts around here.
Well, today I verified the Sump Guard already paid for itself. I am thinking this may have been a speed bump, but also me and some of the guys have been doing very spirited driving thru rural florida's road and some of them can have some bumps on them. Regardless, I am very glad to have the cover, wouldn't think of having the Deep Sump without it. BTW, no indentation on the metal, just deep scratches.
Ouch!
Yeah, that looks like a speed bump alright.
Mine has been on with the Noico sound deadening for about 2 weeks (~75 miles) now.
Unfortunately(fortunately) I no longer have a 52 mile daily commute so I can't really test how long it might last.
Once the quarantine is over I'll be back commuting 50+ miles daily. (New job is near my old job so the commute will only be slightly longer.)
I removed the cover to chase down a possible oil leak, and while at it will install Noico. I have driven the car about 400 miles since installing the 3M tape, and have to say that while originally I would still hear the noise while driving around, after so many miles it has come apparent that is barely noticeable at highway speeds. In other words before it was impossible to ignore the noise, with the 3M tape it kind of is.
I am installing the Noico just because I already purchase it, but the 3M tape does make a difference.
I’ve put about 3k miles on my car since I added the Noico sound deafening to the sump guard plate.
(That’s about 6k less driving than normal pre-COVID)
While I had my car up on the QuickJack yesterday, I got underneath the car and did a quick inspection of the bottom.
Mainly I was looking for any leaks or suspension bolts that might have loosened (I use TorqueSeal/paint so I can visually see if any bolts/nuts have loosened) and checking for other items I should be concerned with.
Everything looked great.
I also noticed the Noico sound deadening is holding up great.
Same here. My noico looks perfect after several track events. Heat is not bothering it at all. Sadly this will be my last update as yesterday i traded the car in so im out of the porsche community for now.
they started at 19k. I just had it detailed. Also showed the kbb showed trade in at 23k to 27k. Im sure buying a new car, covid slow sales and paying cash helped a little.
Short long answer. I have 3 cars. A mercedes S class, my C4S and a BMW E36 LS1 swapped track car (plus the wifes suburban). My oldest son is about to get his license and it was planned that he would be getting the benz. The BMW is a roll caged track car so unless the porsche became a daily driver i would need to replace the benz. After months of debate i finally decided the C4S sits too much. All my fault. Unless its a track event the car rarely left the garage. We are a family of 4 so the C4S just isnt practical as a daily. I really didnt want to sell it. But it just felt stupid letting it sit. Considering the 2020 ScatPack charger offers 485 hp, does the �/4 in 12.5 and 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds its actually faster than the porsche. Its kinda a daily driver that checks all the boxes. Just for fun i actually plan on taking it to a track event or 2. Should be fun and scarry at the same time.
FWIW, I would have dumped the benz...
Regardless, I hope your choice works out for you... I have a feeling you'll be back! (maybe not a 996, but another 911)
I know I�m resurrecting an old thread. But just wanted to update with my experience w/ the LN 2qt sump and skid plate.
1.) With 285/30r18�s, and H&R lowering Springs, it sits low. I can�t imagine driving my 99 C2 with it and not a skid plate on the street. With the plate on I can barely fit my fist between it and the pavement
2.) I seem to have the latest revision of the skid plate. Ample room between it and the engine on the side closest to the front of the car. Slotted attachments by the exhaust. Slightly upward swept side edges.
3.) With the plate on. It is in fact loud. I did a round around the block with out it to check for leaks after curing. Then put it on and drove around and it is much louder. I�ve driven track cars around on the street so I�d like to think I have a higher tolerance for NVH than most. But even I decided to Amazon the NOICO material and roller. I�ll be installing this weekend to the plate and testing so I�ll report back with my findings.
Side note. What�s everyone torquing the skid plate attachment points to?
Thanks!
I bought that LN skid plate and it was ungodly loud. I took it off as it was transmitting high frequency metallic sounds and it was totally irritating.
I was looking at the design...
Unless I installed it incorrectly, it looks like it bolts onto the rear engine carrier bolts and the two locating bolts in front of the engine area.
SO, the engine is mounted using rubber isolation bushings/engine mounts and is designed to absorb vibration and to be isolated from the rest of the vehicle.
This skid plate is rigidly mounted to the subframe/body and the engine, which to me seems to be a strange design, as it will now link a freely vibrating engine assembly to a rigid body.
I am thinking of cutting off either the front or rear steel tabs that are used for bolting to the vehicle and replacing them with reinforced rubber or some sort of synthetic (think a heavy reinforced strap of some sort) - to prevent engine vibration and noise from being able to transmit via the skid plate to the vehicle body. The plate can still provide protection to the sump, but the straps would dampen or quell any transmitted vibration... at least that is my thought process.
Has anyone else tried this?
there is an exhaustive thread on this that I believe zbomb started.
The generally accepted fix is to get some sound proofing sheets from Home Depot and attach to the top of the plate (facing engine) to kill the harmonic vibration. Very straightforward, simple & doesn't compromise the integrity of the plate.
This fix worked like a champ on my car.
Here's the link to the Noico product that has been recommended previously by other Rennlisters.
Amazon
Amazon
We are in the process of migrating to a new site and I just noticed that somehow the complete description, with the link, somehow got lost in the transition. Had this thread not popped up, I might have never found it!
So I ended up cutting all four tabs off my plate. I then installed 4 strips of steel reinforced ballistic strap between the plate itself and the tabs (which I re attached via the strapping). I also installed a lot of dynamat Dynacore on the plate which would end up between the plate and the 2 qt sump. I tightened it all up against the bottom of the sump.
The car is actually more quiet now than it is without the sump plate on. And installing the steel reinforced rubber between the plate and the four tabs is completely isolating engine/engine carrier vibration from transmitting through the forward mount points which are shared with the diagonal braces that eventually mount directly to the car body AFAIK.
I think the key is to allow the engine to move as designed within it's mounts, and not allowing the sump plate to be a rigid link between the ending and the body.
I was totally not expecting the car to be actually quieter than without. Just ran the Tail of The Dragon 3 times this week with zero issues from any aspect, including sump plate, NVH, deep sump/UAOS, oil pressure, etc. All good news.
This seems to negate the purpose unless I'm missing something. I would want a rigid connection between the plate and the crossmember. This will take the brunt of the impact.
If you have a ridgid/solid connection between the engine plate and the cross-member you negate the rubber engine mounting isolation ( motor mounts ).... That's why the vibrations/sounds are being transmitted and/or amplified ...
I was trying to say what he did seems to make the engine more susceptible to damage, taking that rigid connection away from the crossmember and the plate.
Yeah, introducing rubber between the plate and the body does remove some of the rigidity, however it does not remove the ability of the plate to absorb any impact from rocks etc. on the street. We are not driving jeeps off road, this is for street use.
I am not intending my sump plate to support the weight of the car, simply to deflect rocks and bottles and etc.
Also, with the dynacore between the plate and the sump, I have a layer of cushion there, as well. So, if I hit anything hard enough to push the plate upward momentarily, the Dynacore will compress against the sump and I will not have any metal to metal contact.
I am pretty confident this is going to work fine for a street care traveling on paved roads in my area.
Yes, it is not a rigid mount. However the original design is faulty as it binds the (moving and vibrating engine) rigidly to the body, which is less than ideal in my mind.
That is why the person on this thread had a crack develop in his plate - from vibration and stress, I am
assuming
...
I installed the factory aluminum sump guard/plate and it makes no noise, thanks to the multiple panels pressed into the plate. The panels prevent vibration. It did not require loosening the Cats. It required only the coolant line bracket bolts to be removed because they attach the sump guard to the engine. I had a difficult time lining up the bolts through two layers of metal. The two layers refused to cooperate. Another pair of hands would have made it a lot easier. My only concern is that it will likely require removal in order to do a clean oil change. It is very probable that some of the oil will drain onto the top side of the sump guard because the drain hole in the sump guard is so small.
Thanks to a previous owner who ran over something, my engine sump plate took a hit and was heavily scratched and gouged. Although it was damaged, it did not require replacement. Seeing the damage convinced me to buy the factory sump guard to protect the engine in the future.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
