Just A Blurb on Trans Choices...

Here we go with a long-time controversial issue: Transmission choices. I have never written on this subject before, but something dawned on me this morning, so I thought I put it out /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/embaressed_smile.gif Rumors are that Porsche intends to use Getrag's DSG as it isused in the Audi TT or somewhat better version suitable for the torque levels in the 911 TT and GT3 and possibly in the Cayman SC (or what ever it is going to be called). Formany years in my previous life I used manual trans in all my cars as there weren't any other options those days. Even though I raced and thought I perfected my shifting technique, it was never second nature for me going into a corner at high-speed, trying to modulate the brake perfectly and shift properly at the same time (had to double clutch those days, especially with front-drive cars). Many years later, I got my first dream car: a Bimmer, an auto mind you due to a collapse against spousal pressures. Not racing any more, I had to at least get to drive it at the track. To my wonderful suprise, in its manual mode, I could down shift rapidly, not worrying about my braking line or throttle modulation. It was not like a manual, but heck, I wasn't racing and it was quite satisfying. I was sold. When BMW came out with the SMG, I thought it is the future, I was sure I would be driving an SMG track car soon. However, I sold the Bimmer - got really bored of the overall car- bought a STI and turned into a dedicated track car. The power, grip, simplicity (no electronic gadgets at all besides ABS) put a great smile on my face. At the track, I reached speeds that I hadn't reached in a very very long time; total blast. The only problem: it was a manual with very imprecise shifter. A very solid and perfectly matched gear box, but the shifter was awful. Once and only once: at VIR going into turn one (you can reach about 140 mph at the front straight there with the STi), I am at about 110 mph, I am on brake, rapidly slowing down for the turn intending to take in 4th gear (about 2500 rpm) for a nice and stable exist and long acceleration through turn 2 and slowing to again about 3000 rpm for turn 3. Well... instead of shifting from 6th to 4th, I got 2nd /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/angry_smile.gif I cannot remember whether the rear-end hopped 2 or 3 times, but was very scary. It took just 1 or 2 seconds and did not break anything on the car, but I was certainly cursing at myself. When ordering the Cayman, I did not even think of getting the auto, but wondered if I should wait for DSG. We purchased another auto trans. Bimmer since then for weekend travels and fun and sold both of our Subaru's since then; hence I have been driving the new Bimmer daily until the Cayman arrives. This morning I was reading Roundel's review of the M6 with SMG v.III, which was a glowing article of course. But... suddenly, it dawn on me that I really miss shifting around, even in traffic. I cannot pin point what is it that I miss, but I do miss it already. The SMG III or DSG, no matter how sophisticated they may be, no longer actually entices me. As for the last 4-5 years, I will be on the track with the Cayman and I will be shifting and cursing if necessary, but I highly doubt I will ask for a semi-auto box with paddles. I think I am starting to get why so many people are forcing BMW to develop a true manual trans for the M5/M6 pair and telling with determined voices not to even think of bringing the new M3 without a manual trans. I wonder how the Porsche community will react to DSG? I think I am converted now...or re-assimillated /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/shades_smile.gif Edited by - FT on 11/06/2005 12:01:19 PM

I recently test drove an Audi A3 with DSG. I am sure that I didn't drive it long enough to become adept at using it, but if I were considering an automatic, which I never would, I would prefer this auto-manual to an automatic. Because my body is so programmed to be using both arms and both legs when driving that when not using all four to drive a car I don't feel involved. Porsche is using the same supplier for their DSG as Audi is - no surprise, since Porsche engineered the DSG for Audi /Volkswagen.

Yes, I can see that if people need auto, DSG might be the way to go, unless if it is as rough as the SMG. Also, I believe you are right, Porsche had developed and used the DSG technology in some racing form first quite a long time ago; I remember reading it in one of Paul Frerre's writings I think, but cannot quite remember where.

FT, Welcome back to the stick and pedal fold. I drove my first paddle shifter in a Maserati Grandsport last week and while it wasn't bad, it wasn't as much fun as a manual transmission with a stick and clutch pedal. No matter how technically superior the SMG type transmissions may be, I have yet to read a single review of them in BMW , Ferrari, or Lamborghini road tests where the author didn't admit that a regular manual transmission was still more engaging to drive. I can understand why some people prefer an automatic but a manual still keeps you more integrated in the driving experience than an SMG or automatic can.

i think the benefit of dsg is that fact that you can change gear without taking your hands off the wheel(formula 1 style). also if you look at the performance times of a dsg compared to that of a manual, the dsg is faster due to the 2 clutches, it means that the next gear is always ready( up or down). if the cayman would have dsg as an option from the launch i would get it. i do a lot of driving in town and think that having the auto as an option makes so much sense in traffic. Edited by - confused on 11/06/2005 2:45:38 PM

I absolutely agree and if someone were paying me to win races I would get a DSG/SMG transmission. Since I am buying a sports car for fun , I will stick to an old fashioned clutch and stick.

Isn't the DSG system a development of the PDK clutch Porsche used to use on their endurance racers? I think I read a report somewhere that said Porsche's engineers were having problems with the DSG (in a997, I believe?)- not handling the additional power and having a too-roughshift action. I think I'm a committed manual driver, but I'd love to try it out when they finally get it perfected/fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/tounge_smile.gif

I love to drive a stick but for my daily driver I went with auto ( Cayman of course will be 6 speed ) Over the past few years I have noticed that the traffic levels have gone up, making stop and go a frequent event. In addition, in North America, where most of the cars are auto, people use breaks all the time, even when not 100% needed, in many cases just because the engine is connected all the time, and breaking is the only way to slow down

I will gladly shift my 6spd Cayman S up and down and up and down and up and down 30min thru the worst traffic jams in California all day long for just 10min of 80-90mph open road each way to/from work every day. Must have shifter with an HH pattern (no pretending withtiptronic, thank you very much). Must haveclutch. Won't take much to put a smile on my face. Me and my Cayman S .

</blockquote> Pretty much my feelings also........in the end a DSG car may be slightly faster in some situations......but I still don't want one.

As an old racer I would prefer to have a 6 spd. Unfortunately, my back doesn't like to hold in the clutch at lights any more. I have a 993 C2S with Tip that I use on the track as well as the street. The Tip works just fine on the track although I lose a little performance. The new Tip S with the shift down feature while in drive will be very good on the street. I also read somewhere that the Tip for all Porsches is the same one used in the Turbos. If true it should be reliable.

I had a Modena with F1 shifter and found myself totally uninvolved while driving it (not very smooth at low speed, daily traffic mode, and it downshifts on its own when slowing); I have driven the Audi TT with DSG in Germany and found it to be superior to the Ferrari F1 system, but still I don't feel as involved as with a full manual. My race carutilizes a paddle shifter, and I wouldn't have it any other way for that application! Oh, my Cayman S will be manual, thank you, as I thoroughly enjoy blipping for downshifts.

Iwent abck and forth on which one to choose. I have had Steptronic with my BMW 's for years and when the salesman said the main reason guys order Tips is so that their wife can drive it! Well that cinched it for me, I'm going with the 6. Aloha Russ

/fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/teeth_smile.gif that's funny Russ, nevertheless true /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/angel_smile.gif