Fair and balanced Flat 6 Innovations Engine Build evaluation/critique

So, I've had my car back for a little over a month with what amounts to a "new" engine. As I've mentioned in several other threads, I opted for the "Stage II Track Performer" engine. for anyone not familiar with exactly what this entails, check here: http://flat6innovations.com/services/track-performer/ As you can see in the link, this is no simple "re-build" as is commonly used in car parlance - it's essentially a new engine that re-uses a few parts from your old engine. I'm going to try to be fairly comprehensive in my comments, but due to the complex nature of the build and the relatively short period of time I've had the car back (I've driven it just over 900 miles as I write this) I'll have to update my impressions/observations over time. I promised Jake (per his request) I would "pull no punches" when it comes to negatives and likewise I'll give praise where I think it's due. So without further ado... I'll start by giving my overall impressions in a Pro's/Con's format. Pro's: * Per website, they use all the best parts, techniques and processes while building your engine. Comprehensive build based on customers wants needs within a given build level (currently three build levels, although Jake has said that will be changing soon) Ability to deal with "the guy in charge" at just about every step of the process Clear/Direct communication Clear/Direct pricing when it comes to parts and/or any changes as the build progresses. - it will cost exactly what they (Jake or Jud) say it will cost...no more no less. They'll take care of engine ancillaries while they're in there (and the engine is out) - obviously this is going to cost you more than diy - but you don't have to diy POWER ! LONGEVITY! - Obviously, this will be a long term proposition, so I can't comment from experience now. Con's: Website...? I'm not a website designer, but I've seen better, more concise, less confusing sites - I love Jake's video's...the website - not so much. Price! What can I say, we bought expensive cars - This fact has nothing to do with FSI, it's just a fact. This motor will cost you a bundle - in most cases more than you paid for the car... Shipping. Regardless that FSI is extremely helpful with this part of the transaction, it remains the least controllable and worst part - my experience wasn't great, but I suspect not as bad as some have had. "Extras" - Eh, not really a negative, but if you're anything like me, after you've made two payments toward your engine build (and you know you have another still to come) "extras" are the last thing on your mind. Time - once again, it is what it is. FSI is up front about the timing factor - it's the nature of the beast. If you simply can't wait, this build is not for you. Format: Since I've laid out the Pro's and Con's, I'll stick to this format but sort of try to rebut each point I lay out - I'm not a journalist, and I don't have an editor so I might meander a bit. Now to my experience... I'll start with the con's, as they're fresh in your mind. Website - Well, if you've spent any time there reading or trying to digest it's contents, you'll see what I mean. Evidently they were hacked sometime last year, but there are still remnants of the hack left over, and certain headings/links still say things like "I am text block"...I imagine that whoever was maintaining the website either quit or was fired long ago. This doesn't excuse the fact that the site still doesn't work, or that there is difficult to understand or even contradictory wording in some of the build descriptions. I know this may seem a little "nit picky" and not related to engine building, but I could see some people being turned off by it. Price ... What is there to say really. If you've ever done any work or had any work done, you know both parts and labor are generally expensive on any Porsche you own. The 996 is no exception! Flat 6 Innovations is certainly no exception - BUT what you really need to look at here is VALUE . This is where Communication comes into the equation. From the very first phone call, you speak with Jake and he figures out exactly what you want - and presents you options to achieve your goals. By the end of the first call, you pretty much know what you want - or don't want from FSI. This is followed up by a written proposal based on the call. Bottom line is that the communication is open and clear - if there is a misunderstanding or change of mind, it's aired and resolved before any work begins. Once the proposal is signed and the first payment is made (OUCH! ) the ball starts rolling. Shipping... Ugh, this was arguably the worst part of my experience - and it could have been worse. Suffice it to say that the folks who work in this business (sorry to paint with a broad brush, but this is my experience - I'm sure others have had good/great experiences) are not always direct and up front. After leaving my house, my car was supposed to be down in Georgia the following evening. The following morning I got an email (or call - i don't remember which came first) saying the driver decided to stay in the Bronx overnight before driving down to Georgia the following day - which was the weekend, causing Jake's crew to have to make a special trip to the shop to receive the car. The excuse was snow in Virginia, but it turned out to be a straight rain event. Needless to say, I wasn't happy, and it threatened to derail the project before it even got started. Jake intervened, and promised that they would deal with it, and that it in no way would reflect on the ultimate outcome of the job. Ultimately, with a page right out of "customer relations 101" Jake refunded my entire shipping fee (with no such suggestion from me) - that's class! Shipping on the way back was somewhat better, but was a scheduling nightmare that added over a week to the reunion with my car - even then, the car arrived a day earlier than planned (and planned, and planned...) and if not for the grace of my son who happened to be able to leave work early and take delivery, who knows what would have happened. Hopefully I don't have to ship my car anytime soon... Extras/Time - I put these together as there isn't too much to say about either one. I already mentioned the problem with the extras (in my mind anyway). FSI has already had your car for 3 months or so, you've already given them 2/3rd's of the cost of your re-build, and here they come "trying to sell you" on more parts/labor while they're in there. I guess there's no "nicer" way to do it, and they are generally "optional" purchases unless they find something glaring (you don't have to do any of them, but we all know the slippery slope and the nagging feeling of "if I don't do it now, it's going to break as soon as I get it home"...). In my case, they replaced my coolant expansion tank, my clutch slave cylinder & hydraulic line (which wasn't leaking but could have started at any time). I was happy to do these even though I hadn't planned for the extra expense - as it turned out, there were a few "other expenses" that didn't materialize...I'll get to these in a bit. Time...well, it turned out my build ran about 6 weeks over what it should have. This was due to an unforeseen fueling problem caused by the C4 saddle bag fuel tank "venturi tubes" - when run up to higher RPM's (5500 - 6000) the fuel would go lean due to a split in one of the tubes. It was a difficult problem to diagnose and in addition to making me extremely nervous, it really threw a wrench in Jake's build/shop schedule. All I could do was remain optimistic - I knew they'd figure it out. All I could do was hope it was sooner rather than later. In the end, they were able to pull the whole fuel pump and venturi tube unit from another C4 in the shop and test it in my car - that was it. Once they got the new parts, I had my car in about two weeks. At this point I've addressed the cons and the pro's that I think rebutted them... ** Just a few things to mention first... I know that Jake and his crew see/rebuild many engines in all stages of failure from catastrophic to running seemingly well. In my case, my engine was running "well" but it had what I suspected was bore scoring - a heavy "tick" that was non-existent at start-up but would get worse when hot. I had done a bunch a work on the motor myself about a year earlier (engine/tranny out, new clutch, IMS solution, cam chains, cam chain tensioner pads, all new hydraulic tensioners, AOS, checked the lifters etc. - I posted a thread here) but all "top end" stuff - never took the heads off. After I did all my work, the engine ran great, the car drove great, I did a full brake change out, but the ticking was getting worse (still didn't use much oil though, maybe 8oz/1000 mi.) and I knew at some point I had to face the music. The thought of removing the engine again and tearing everything down - was not appealing to me, and I had the money to get it done, so I made the call, and bit the bullet... When they tore the engine down, they found that it had one steel cylinder sleeve that had started to slip, and of course - bore scoring! There was a question of whether they'd even be able to properly machine the crankcase for the Nickies due to the steel sleeve - as it turned out LN Engineering was able to to the machining and install the Nickies with no ill effects, and NO EXTRA COST to the build (had I needed a new case/case half it would have cost me). There was also some questionable work done to the heads that FSI found upon tear-down that had to be remedied (all this stuff is documented with photo's of the entire process). What I'm trying to illustrate is that my build was somewhat of a nightmare scenario for the FSI crew but they handled everything with thorough communication, and at no time did they try to "jack me for extra costs" - which a less scrupulous shop certainly could/would have done. For this I'm extremely grateful! Onto my impression of the engine! As it should be, my impressions are ALL positive (thank god!). What else can I say, the power just keeps on giving (just over 305hp at the wheels according to the Dyno - I think that's around 6k rpm. The torque #'s are equally impressive though I can't quote them offhand - note to self...I've got to learn them). It's extremely smooth - you can hear it as soon as the engine starts. It just "sounds like a Porsche should" - this is the exact quote that my son said when the car came off the delivery truck. As I said earlier, I've driven it a little over 900 miles in about a month and I just love every time I get in the car. As far as I can tell at this point, it's absolutely worth every penny spent. Longevity will be the big test - as long as I finish the break in process properly (which is really just drive the car like it was meant to be driven and use the specified oil during break in) it should last me a very long time. I know this is a long post, feel free to ask any questions or for clarification.

Nice write up, thanks for the point of view. I'm looking forward to seeing this thread develop. I've started debating having my '01 C4 done with the same stage 2 motor. I don't have symptoms of anything catastrophic yet but want to keep the car very long term so it may make sense to address it before it becomes a problem.

How long did it take to write this? Really, thanks for sharing your adventure.

Great read and love someone to share their experience. Do you mind share the reason for picking a track performer and maybe some detail on how that's decided. Do you plan to do track days and if longevity of each type of build was discussed?

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^^ Writing take long time Joe! Seriously, it took nearly two hours as I had to self edit as I went. It's really taken since I got the car back though since I've been thinking about it the whole time...

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Well, the takeaway is you have a Stage II Flat Six Engine! Live long and enjoy!

Our cars were at FSI at the same time for a short period and I will echo Dave's thoughts. Although I did not have any shipping issues, my car did take longer than expected but the communication by Jake and Jud were top notch. I am at about 1000 miles and I love the increased torque and power. The best part is knowing the engine is now what it should have been from the factory. I don't plan to track the car but at the time I signed my contract, it was only $2,000 more to go with the 3.8 Track Performer II vs. the 3.6 Street Performer which made it an easy decision.

For me, a rebuild of a M96 H6 for around 25K is just... well, I would say just that I would never pay that. But I respect every choice and that everyone wants to defend theirs, even with supposed "figurative added values"...

Holy Crap Dude! You had one steel liner in the engine!!!???

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I have thought about this quite a bit. Given that you can buy another 996 for 25k or much less. If I want 300hp to the wheel, sell the 996 and get a 996 turbo. sell the car at 20k give or take and buy one at 40k+. Or anything in this performance level are about 40k or more, Civic Type R, Focus RS, Golf R, 996 Turbo, E92 M3 (this one probably cheaper)... Of course if you are going to 'resell' then it makes no sense at all, this only make sense if you love the car and want to keep it.

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Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed honest opinion about your experience with Flat 6 Innovations. I've heard of many horror stories regarding shipping these types of cars. Just glad it got there in one piece. And, hearing that Jake Raby refunded the cost of shipping speaks highly of his integrity. I've dealt with companies on matters like this before and they usually pass the blame and wash their hands of the problem. They say, "Sorry sir, it's not our fault. Take it up with them!" Ugh! Question - Were you able to reuse your original heads? How did Jake handle that part of the process? Len Hoffman? Anyway, thank you for taking the time to write this up. I hope you'll continue to report back on the performance and longevity of this newly "reconstructed" engine.

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I bought a CTR in Feb 2019 it was not $40k. I know a lot of dealers are marking them up that high but not in the middle part of the country. I can tell you the CTR while fun is NOT a 996! I can't wait to get mine back. It's going to be hard to chose some days! Yeah I know first world problem...

The Stage II in my car has 24,000 miles on it. It sounds and performs like a real Porsche engine should! Growls and drives the car forward! Had one expensive experience at about 17k miles after rebuild, VarioCam cam vane failed (P0011 error). This was a part reused from the original engine. The other cam vane seems fine. One long time and very experienced shop told me he's starting to see more of these failures in standard M96 engines, not many but incrreasing. Great tech support from FSI on troubleshooting the problem over emai!. One of the coil packs failed at 18k miles after rebuild. Oil samples come back with glowing reports. Other than that, this car is an amazing ride!

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Does Flat 6 handle the shipping or did you set that up? How does that work? Did you use the same company as the OP?

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Yes, Jud set it up by being the middle man both times. Jake has a separate company that he uses to ship vehicles. They make it clear that since they are in a remote part of Georgia they want to be in charge of who they use. I had good luck both times but I did ship enclosed where I think OP used open.

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No, I don�t mind sharing. For the cost differential about $2k it just seemed to make more sense to me. In addition, the idea of doing an occasional DE or Auto-Cross is also appealing - Jake�s pretty clear that if these thoughts even cross your mind, there�s no question that you want the �Stage II Track Performer�.

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^^ Yup... no way of knowing short of tearing the engine down. When I had done my work previously I only went as far as the cams/lifters...

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They do - sort of... I think my debacle may have caused them to rethink it though (I hope not but who knows - I�m sure I wasn�t the first and won�t be the last to have shipping problems)... In any case, regardless of who does the legwork, unless you do it on a regular basis and have a good relationship with a shipper, it�s just fraught with danger by its very nature.

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Open on the way down - that�s why the idea of it sitting in the Bronx overnight freaked me out. It turned out that the guy was pretty cool and parked the rig (pickup truck with car trailer) in a parking garage. Unfortunately, communications were loose and I didn�t actually know that til quite a few hours later...pretty high anxiety 😉

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When taken out of context your arguments may seem to make sense. The deciding factor for me is that this is my car, it�s exactly as I want it - suspension, all the rest of the work and mods I�ve done to it etc. When all is said and done, I�ll be into it for about $45k and I�ve owned it for almost 5 years. I also plan on keeping it indefinitely, which has always been the plan. You don�t buy these cars as an investment and you don�t mod them with an eye to sell - if you do, you lose $.

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For the Stage II build my understanding is that there is a substantial amount of head work done as part of the build (though the website is a bit confusing on exactly what�s included and what is optional) - I think Len Hoffman does the head work for Jake. I�m not sure if he was able to fix the heads as a matter of course or they refurbed some old decent used heads they had �laying around�. Whatever the case, everything got done for the agreed to price for the engine build

Thanks to Dporto for this summary. He put a lot of time into it, and I appreciate the good, and the bad. I would like to clarify a couple of points here: 1- The website has about 20 pages that just need to be removed. When we were hacked the back up lacked the text, and I never had the time to re-write it. While the website isn't perfect, it is a lot better than what it replaced, which had not been updated since 2011. Last year when the site was "re- done" the web developer changed my mind when I told him to remove e the old website and make the website have one single page, with no other info. My idea was to remove all content and only have our contact info posted, along with the support system to communicate. I wanted nothing else. Content that is not there is nothing that people can argue with. In this scenario, had I demanded my way with the web developer we likely wouldn't have gotten a bad review on the website. 2- Shipping has always been a catch 22. It always will be. We have shipped over 700 Porsche cars to and from Flat 6, and I can count how many significant issues we have had on one hand, Dporto's was one of those. That said, I would like to expand on this. Dporto was able to work directly with the driver for his transport of the vehicle to Flat 6. Flat 6 did not collect any funds from him at all Specialty Vehicle transport, and the driver collected all funds.. Since everything related to an engine build is ultimately the responsibility of F6, I directed Jud to bill me for the shipping personally, and to deduct the amount from Dporto's engine invoice. In short, we paid Dporto back for shipping, though F6 never collected money for the shipping. It was not a "refund", because we never collected the money. It was a disaster for Dporto to deal with, and it made us look bad, so we dealt with it, without question. That said, now a lot of people may read this, and think they can be "disappointed" with the shipping experience to have me foot the bill. I will make it very clear that things have been put into place as a result of Dporto's shipping experience that will never find this scenario occurring again. The "no good deed goes unpunished" rule certainly applies here in regard to people getting ideas. The catch 22 for Flat 6 and shipping is the following: -If we collect vehicles to apply our full process, it removes all variables of another shop having an issue with the engine, or car. had we not gotten Dportos car his fuel enrichment issue would have NEVER been found, and the new engine would have died if it ever went to the track. I hate trusting anyone to install our engine, so we collect cars, and spend a ton of time doing all our work. -If we do not collect a car we have a ton of installation variables to deal with that can make for a less than stellar experience for the buyer, and for us. Likely the install shop WANTS a problem to occur, so they can charge us for a warranty issue, more make extra money. I have a severe dislike for anyone touching our engine, or even starting it up for the first time. The only time we do not collect a car is when it comes to international purchasers, and even then sometimes we receive cars. We did have a separate company that I started to act as a shipping broker, to facilitate these movements. The bond for this company came due earlier this year and I did not renew it, as after this episode with Dporto, I decided that we'd have nothing to do with shipping. In short, we are no longer assisting with shipping. We have compiled a list of shippers we have used in the past, and at most we will give this list to the customer as a place to start when it comes to finding a transporter to get the car moved. We are making it very clear that we aren't responsible if the list leads someone into a problem with a shipper, and we no longer make any shipping arrangements, or etc. We give the list of shippers to the customer ahead of their car being shipped, and at the same time we hand over a shipping directive about how they should prepare the car, and our hours of availability when it comes to sending, and receiving vehicles. The customer then has to make their arrangements, handle communication, and deal with the movement of the car. We give some pointers, but that's all. Its a tough place to be in.. If we don't collect a car we risk a huge liability allowing someone to install the engine, and test it. If we help set up shipment of the car as a friendly gesture, we end up being caught in the middle, if we ship the car ourselves we are then responsible for everything, and the whole scenario becomes a disaster.Due to this F6 has never shipped a car directly, and never will. Moving forward its hard to say what will happen with the engine program due to this shipping issue. I am not up for sending engines away to be installed by others, as that is the one thing that will KILL the engine program in short order. Shipping is not the end of the world, but we have no place in the middle of it. Most of the shipping roles have been taken over by Reliable Transport, who ships for PCNA, all the big auction companies, and etc. They have alleviated a lot of the issues, but they also are not perfect. We have been handing over the shipments to Harold at Reliable, and he has been working with the customers directly with some good results. Shipping is the one part of this that has the possibility of making or breaking the experience. The single digits of issues we have had trumps the hundreds of positive experiences, which is always the case. Thank you dporto for the review.

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Any idea of how the steel liner got into that engine? How long has it been in there? Was that the cylinder that had the scoring and was making the noise? This is very interesting to me.. I hope you have that kind of history on the car.

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Yeah, this was the point of my surprise! How, who, why, when. I understand that you wouldn't know unless you pulled heads minimum. It is just shocking to me even though I have read about this happening.

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+1 on Reliable Transport. They did good for me on the way down.

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Thanks for sharing your story. Glad the car is making you smile.

Nice write up, thanks for sharing.

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My brother just used Reliable to ship 3 cars from New Orleans to Michigan and was very happy.

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The engine had been molested by a butcher shop. They did one steel sleeve and butchered the valve job so bad that I had to throw the heads away. I will probably use them next time I build a test engine to burn down on purpose. We are seeing this a lot, there�s less virgins out there everyday.

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I knew it...

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One ah s**t wipes out a hundred attaboys...

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Great review. Pretty much exactly what I expected. Nice to see it confirmed. Just curious, but what do you mean making or breaking the experience? I know your team is on somewhat strict deadlines but do you mean it can cause a delay in the build or just cause some frustration for your customers? When there's an issue with the shipping, is it often delayed by several days or more?

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It's simple.. Any hiccup with shipping causes a less than favorable experience all around. All it takes is one little thing to set a downhill spiral, that we can't recover from through months of a build process. Its a lot like n aircraft that goes into a spin. Can you get it to fly straight again before it becomes a lawn dart? Just like with Dporto's review, even though we have NOTHING to do with shipping, and have no control over it, the shipping was still included in the review. Ultimately, it was a the only real negative of his whole experience, and really should not have been included, but it was, and it always is. Our work starts when we begin communication, the proposal is executed and since the car has to be delivered here for the work to be done, and then shipped home. It's a necessary evil. In this scenario we paid for Dporto's shipping, even though we were not a part of the shipping transaction. Imagine how much different his review would have been if he had to go through all of those hassles, and I would not have voluntarily assumed this expense? It would have been a lot more critical, and justifiably so... It's damn if we do, and double damn if we don't. My classes are the same way. If someone travels here for a class, and they have a horrible flight, that's still voiced to us, and included in their review. One guy had a flight delay that held him up by a solid day, but somehow that was the fault of the class. After that one I am considering doing any more classes. Should it be? Should something that we have zero to do with, be included in our critique? Some says yes, some say no. All will read this shipping challenge as a negative, and that changes the way my whole program is viewed. The car has to get here for us to do our work, so the shipping is necessary to facilitate this. That is the reason why its included in a review. Now, what was also not mentioned were the days of time that we spent chasing the fuel delivery issue that plagued this car for weeks. I want to make it very clear that the engine its self was done ON TIME, but we fought fuel delivery issues for weeks. This was a problem that we'd never seen before, and no one we'd talked to had seen it, either. I am sure that others will see this soon. Dporto was not billed for any of the time to chase this issue. We stopped the charges when the diagnostics began, and we did not start charging again until we had the problem diagnosed, and rectified by swapping parts from a known good car to Dportos car, and solving the problem. The charging began when the new parts arrived from Porsche to repair the issue, not a minute before that. Dporto didn't;t have to ask for that, I told him up front. Why? Because I don't charge a customer for us to learn. The time spent "learning" cost us over 3,000.00 in billable time that could have been spent on other jobs. The time we lost there actually was partially responsible for GH996's car being finished a little later than planned. I like that this thread states that things here are not perfect. This thread will now be required reading for anyone entering our program. If this stuff scares them, its best if they choose another "option" that's not quite as up front, and clear at the onset. In the last few weeks we have changed a lot about how things operate here. My warranty is changing (after an owner over revved the engine on day one, then the next weekend he drove it 140MPH on a public highway, only because I didn't tell them that he couldn't!) and then things with installations, shipping, billing for time for issues found with cars during testing, not related to our work, and etc. Every year it gets tougher to perpetuate the success of this business, and that's not due to anything with engine internal technicals. With higher prices comes a bigger expectation (to the point where no human, or no engine can meet the expectation). I had the same thing happen with Aircooled Porsche cars years ago. When we started working with these M9X cars they were new, today that's not the case, and everything is tougher as a result. Time in service is what killed the innards of Dporto's fuel tank, and that's just one example of what we are fighting. It may be time to tag the line, finish the jobs that are in work (proposed solid through February of 2021) then take a step back, and figure out the next chapter at that time.

Trust me, I get it. Boy, do I! Dealing with the general public is not easy. My parents owned businesses, and now I own my own. I own a low-voltage cabling installation company. Just a few jobs ago, we tried to help out a customer meet a deadline. I altered the agreement without getting it in writing. Well, it back fired on me. We met their deadline but still needed to finish a few cosmetic issues. They experienced connectivity issues. They blamed it all on us even though I had proof the cables were terminated correctly. Turned out their switches needed to be configured differently now that the new cabling was shielded Cat 6. They never apologized, or even thanked us for working 12+ hour days, even on the weekends. Shame, but that's what you get when dealing with the public. Has been that way, and always will. When I read this review, I didnt take it as anything against you guys. However, I can see how others would unfortunately. Just look at some of the reviews people give products. They'll rate the product lower because of how long the shipping took. Smh

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I can relate. Trust me, the vast majority of what we do, and who we deal with is great. There are some that are not, and my issue is the amount of people who are harder to deal with have increased. The society we live in today is partially responsible. Online orders and etc are certainly driving the "instant gratification" side of things. About 10 years ago we sold parts, but stopped that because of hassles. Life instantly got better, because the amount not people we dealt with was reduced by 80%. We deal with less than 35 customers per year now, and that gives us a lot of time to spend with each person. I can only imagine the train wreck we would have if we had the parts store, or anything else to pull our focus. As it is now Jud does nothing all day long except work with the 35 people that are on active in our engine program.

I don't know...what I read from the OP was a really great review, with the honest perspective of how a customer feels. We all know that F6I is, by far, the cream of the crop when it comes to these motors and I don't know of any one else that would have chased down the fuel supply issue like they did--after the build. For me, the whole experience is much more valuable than "I got a bitchin motor, dude", I want to get a better understanding and know the entirety of the experience (even if I dont need to know all the details). Disclosure here: I attended Jake's Hands On class and had one of the best learning experiences of my life (and I'm a teacher). He has a method that builds on experience to develop the confidence needed to build (or rebuild) one of these beasts. The most important take-away I got from this review was that Jake and F6I will go out of their way to make sure they take great care of you and your machine. Most of us will suffer from some form of buyer's hesitation (I dont want to use remorse), even if we know its for the better, and I think dporto conveyed that emotional aspect of it very well. And it wasn't a negative at all. If I had all the money to do this through F6I, I know I certainly would, after all, this is for those of us who really love our cars . Just my 2 cents... Oh, and what I'm finding out, is that the cost of me doing something analogous to what Jake does would dang near cost me almost what he charges...without his expertise and follow through.

Worth every cent...Just think of how many other builders would have sent your car out as complete not addressing the fueling issue.

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^^^ So, this was my intent - To give a review of my total experience without coming off as a "Fan Boi" for FSI (Even though I totally am now). But also not to come off as in any way unhappy or sour on the experience. The idea was to put everything out there and let the dust settle where it may. Jake doesn't pull any punches when he responds to others - and he actually asked me not to pull any punches in my review. I think I was very clear that most if not all the "con's" of my experience were by no direct fault of FSI. Most telling of all is that none of the con's are related to the engine build itself! Unfortunately, this type of service doesn't exist in a vacuum - there are always going to be the types of challenges that presented themselves during my build... The bottom line is that Jake/Jud, (and the rest of the nameless crew I'm sure) acquitted themselves admirably and rose to the challenge. The fact that Jake/FSI has the success that it does, and for as long as it has, speaks volumes to his/their work ethic and overall quality of work. They are the best of the best, and we all benefit from their ongoing commitment to integrity and our platform of choice.

Unfortunately people will be people and seems like a large amount of folks these days have a "you owe me, I deserve the best now and to be first in everything with a trophy". Life doesn't always work like that. There will be hiccups and challenges. It's nice to know there are providers who will go the extra mile for a customer regardless of the impact to them. It's called customer service. Great customer service is disappearing these days because people can be such jerks. I can almost hear that complaint in my head. My response would have been " Warrantee Void. Have a nice day!" However, that's why I didn't work directly with customers. I suffer fools poorly. Again, I would tell them to talk to their air travel provider...not that politely, of course. Just think what could have happened if Dp's car had been released with a condition that could cause it to go lean at higher rpms! Great review in my opinion. Sharing successes and trials. This thread has once again supported the wiseness of my choice...

Thank you! What means a lot to me is that we had to "earn" these statements with your car, much more than others. As I often say "we don't learn from the easy ones, only the problematic ones". The car arrived in the same condition, Dporto just didn't know it. The thing is that if the car hadn't seen the Dyno, we would have never known the issue existed. This is what concerns me about providing engines for others to install, as they just slap an engine into a car, and let it fly. It's not their engine, or car, and they often feel like they can benefit from a problem under warranty, since they believe they'll get to do the repair.

Jake, There was earlier discussion about the difference between stage 1 and 2 features. Can you elaborate on what is done differently in the rebuild between stage 1 and 2? It appears more comprehensive head work, connecting rods, and coated bearings?

I am (hopefully) not in the market for FSI's services, but I thought that this review was great. Also Jake's comments were very much appreciated. It was well stated that things beyond their control affected the potential satisfaction of the customer. In this case the customer was knowledgeable and understanding and the supplier went above and beyond to make sure that everything went as well as possible. Great information and I learned a lot by reading this. Having been in various forms of business ownership and sales management for 30 years I can completely sympathize with Jake's concerns. Daryll

Quotes source post: 15976491

There's a lot of differences between Stage 1, and Stage 2. The cost differential between the two varies, based on engine designation, and the differential is usually more than Dporto paid. The upgrades of a Stage 2, from a Stage 1 are: -Increased displacement, most all Stage 2 engines use the 101mm bore size, early engines are 3.8, late engines are 4.0 -Increased port work -Increased compression ratio -billet connecting rods -altered camshaft timing -coated rod, and main bearings -altered internal bearing clearances -different level of engine assembly And more that I don't want the imitators to hear about. My prices on the Stage 2 engines has recently increased, most are 24,500-27,500.00 for an elective build, based on engine designation.

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Great review! Thank you for posting and I look forward to updates! Much agreed. I just hop Jake doesn't change too much for of his business model for future customers... Mike

*****Disclaimer: I ask this question as a person who lacks a lot of knowledge how your business operates. The following questions are for my own educational purposes only, and, in no way, are intended for any other reasons. Learning how successful companies work is a hobby of mine***** One part of the process that I've always wondered why is the need for the customer to ship the car down for the rebuild process to start. Would a core longblock make the process easier for everyone? Things I know that would need to happen: -Have a donor longblock on-hand -Make the customer aware they are responsible for any damage the engine that comes out of their car has, Additional costs will be added to the bill once the customer's engine is torn down and inspected to see if it can be used as a core for a future customer's build. Advantages: -The customer doesn't need to ship their car down immediately. -When the customer does need to ship their car down for installation, how long it takes is much less of a concern -The customer keeps their car longer and is less likely to be itching to get their car back I assume you have tired this before, and if so, how did it work out? Also, if this is a question you would rather not answer here. I understand. Again, just for educational purposes.

[QUOTE=Prelude Guy;15976881]*****Disclaimer: I ask this question as a person who lacks a lot of knowledge how your business operates. The following questions are for my own educational purposes only, and, in no way, are intended for any other reasons. Learning how successful companies work is a hobby of mine***** One part of the process that I've always wondered why is the need for the customer to ship the car down for the rebuild process to start. Would a core longblock make the process easier for everyone? Things I know that would need to happen: -Have a donor longblock on-hand -Make the customer aware they are responsible for any damage the engine that comes out of their car has, Additional costs will be added to the bill once the customer's engine is torn down and inspected to see if it can be used as a core for a future customer's build. Advantages: -The customer doesn't need to ship their car down immediately. -When the customer does need to ship their car down for installation, how long it takes is much less of a concern -The customer keeps their car longer and is less likely to be itching to get their car back I assume you have tired this before, and if so, how did it work out? Also, if this is a question you would rather not answer here. I understand. Again, just for educational purposes.[/QUOT If you go back and reread you'll see there was a fuel delivery issue that was unknown until the car was dyno'dE]. This could have been catastrophic... I have a motor that I was planning on sending to Jake, but now it looks like I'll have to do something else with it. Sending my car to him from Hawaii makes no sense!

Quotes source post: 15976903

I saw that. The fuel delivery issue would've still been picked up if a core engine was used. Not sure what you mean. Under the core engine idea, the customer still ships the car down to them for installation. They just wait closer to the completion date of core engine. The new engine still gets dyno'd, etc.

808Bill, I guess you are going to have to take a vacation to Georgia and take the hands on class and do it yourself. I have mine half way tore down having just started a week ago. Going really slowing trying really hard to document everything. Paying Jake to do it sounds better and better every day, but, too late now!

They don't. We start the process immediately, sourcing new components, and etc. We collect the car 3.5 months before the completion date. Once the vehicle is received the customer's engine is removed, processed, machined, balanced, assembled, and installed back into the vehicle. In most cases the car is away from home for a total of 4 months. In some instances it can, but easier is not better in most cases. Swapping long blocks is what mass producers do, and that's not what we are. Our customers usually want their original engine number back, also. They want the next level of detail, and service not found by a generic "swapping" of engines. Each spring I build a handful of "on demand" engines for those who don't want to wait, or don't want their original engine back.I sold 8 of these engines in a 3 week period this spring. And not just "any" long block". It can't have a zillion miles, must be complete, and can't have a failure. Finding this is a unicorn. That doesn't work. You can't prepare anyone enough for added charges. They always complain, and end up disappointed. They leverage this and try to reduce charges, then we end up losing. ​​​​​​​They don't need to ship the car immediately, anyway. Unless we hit a problem like with did with Dporto, which would slow their car down as much as it did his. In my experience those who buy "on demand" engines have the shortest fuse, and they feel they are paying a premium for the fastest service. They don't like to wait, so they are less forgiving to problems. ​​​​​​​That usually doesn't matter, because the car is blown up, and has been waiting for months while we build an engine. Nothing is going to change the fact that the demand for our work is greater than we can keep up[ with, while maintaining quality, through a reduced number of engines built per year. Growing this business to build more does not appeal to me. What I shoot for is a personal approach, and customers who share their family stories with us, and when they call up we remember each other. True craftsmanship, and a "mom and pop" feel is pretty much lost today. I want this business to be the last one left on the planet that has the approach of "one builder, one engine" and no mass production. I want our customers to always understand our family, and share things about their family with us. I have tried it all over the years. The plan that we currently execute is the only thing that works, and doesn't offer compromise.

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As I was taught as a small child "Good things come to those who wait" and I'm not talking about ketchup! Sometimes quality cannot be rushed...in fact, quality can never be rushed. That only leads to mistakes. Mistakes=poor quality. Jake: You are on the right course!

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You can't rush success, only failure. That said, the only caveat the current program has is vehicle shipping. Removing ourselves from the transport has actually helped things a lot. We were busy trying to help, and help do the organization, and never realized that we were getting in the way. With Reliable handling the majority of the loads now, we just introduce the vehicle owner to Harold, and they take it from there. Reliable knows how we operate, when to drop off, and pick up, and it all works like a well- oiled machine most of the time. There are some issues with Reliable, and that's why Dporto didn't use them.. They could not pick the car up for a couple of weeks, and get it to his area. They are also at the top end of the pricing spectrum, so some people don't choose them for that reason.

Quotes source post: 15976732

What engine case/version do you prefer to start with? Frex - if a guy has a early 99 with very high mileage, is that preferable to an 04 with low mileage, or does not really play much of a difference? I'm thinking long term, stage 2(if one is going to go FSI, why leave HP on the table). <edit to add; This is kinda of a follow on to the 'roller rebuild' from another thread. I would prefer to start with a 99 aero, with M030. If I can find the right car, and it's a later model, how would that affect the end result?>

Quotes source post: 15977926

We always use the original engine from the car. If the customer had a failure with a 99, a replacement M96.01/ 02/ 04 crankcase, and core components would be used as replacements. We never swap engines, unless an R51, R43, or R44 engine is being built (or another of my oddballs due to scenario) is being built. Fitting a 2004 (M96.03) engine to a 99' car is an engine conversion. The two do not share the same DME, one is a 3 chain with VC+ and the other is a VF-1 5 chain engine. Swaps like this are a nightmare. Building the engine that belongs in the car is the only way we roll. Dporto's 99' is making the same power that the same size engine would make from a 2002 or newer car, as an example.

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Adding that to my list of favorite sayings, right beside "It's easier to be a victim than a failure."

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But - which results in the best final product? If I find a perfect 04 candidate, and a marginal 99 candidate, which should I choose? Or is it no factor in the rebuild? Any better, any worse, any preference? Not considering a year swap. It sounds like I want to get my 99, and have done the right work, but finding the options I want are like hens teeth.

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I don't think you would need to ship your car there. As long as you are flexible and patient, I wouldn't doubt he would be able to work with you remotely. Worth asking. I am confident the perfect engine is the engine that has an owner with the biggest wallet. As old as these cars are, they are all about the same once built. The more things you refresh/replace, the better the results.

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Your confidence is misplaced. The aviation world, where reliability is paramount knows something called the 'bathtub curve of reliability'. May want to investigate it. More than one plane has been brought down by a mfg, or service defect, where the work could have been avoided simply by leaving non-life limited components alone. Frex - I have engine rods in my crankcase that were forged in 1948. The engine case was cast in 1951. I would be very hesitant to replace one of those rods or case with a 'new' stock unit. https://www.weibull.com/hotwire/issue21/hottopics21.htm

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We did speak last Sept. and he (at that time) offered to take my motor in. But I want to wait until I have all the funds together before I commit someone else's time. Unexpected events happen and I don't want to be in the middle of budgeting such a large sum. My business is growing and we needed a new truck last year' also we just bought a new forklift 2 months ago.

Quotes source posts: 15978321, 15978268

That's almost exactly the same reason why I haven't been able to book an engine rebuild with his shop. My business is growing and the first month's salary of each new employee I hire comes out of my own pocket. My confidence isn't misplaced. You were asking about M96 engines, and I was talking about M96 engines. Not sure where aviation engines came from. LOL

Quotes source post: 15978391

The engineering principles of the infant mortality, and service faults are not unique to aviation. They apply to the M96 engine, as with all designs. One can technically call the IMS bearing failures a form of 'infant mortality' as they have a high failure rate compared to the rest of the engine components. Remediation of the IMS bearing carries with it a succession of potential faults. Wrong bearing selected, incorrect torque, failure to lock the cam(s), etc. Porsche designers decided that the bearing would last the life of the engine. Their defense all along has been that there isn't a problem with the IMS bearing. Right up until they signed the consent decree, agreeing that the bearing fails prematurely compared to similar applications with similar loads. It is quintessentially an expression of the failure mode. BTW, in aviation people spend a lot of money on unneeded repairs, and replacements. The airlines have now focused on RCM(reliability centered maintenance) which typically reduces maint 'cycles' and focuses on system status, and fixing those systems. If applied to an M96 engine, it would certainly reduce the 'checkbook' servicing that you alluded to.

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The one to choose, is the one that came from the vehicle originally. Build that engine the proper way. We will not supply engine for fitment into a chassis that isn't factory compatible. Doing so leads to phantom issues, disappointment, and constant issues. We had a customer talk us into doing an engine for a conversion car by stating "my car has all the bugs worked out, the engine swap was done 5 years ago, and it has no problems". We build a new engine for the car, and install it. Dead #4 cylinder from minute 1. No injector pulse..... So I go look at his teardown photos and low and behold his #4 cylinder is also what suffered a massive failure with the prior engine, and the two issues were clearly related. So, I call him up and ask if he had any issues with misfires before, and he says "Yeah, we had an intermittent issue, and never could figure it out". Wait... What? I thought the car had no issues? We chased the issue for 3 days and found that his hacked up wiring harness with wires added to actuate the VC+ was at fault, and we finally found the bad wire, and made the fix... Got stuck doing that work for free, else he would have complained, then I would have told him things that would make him cry, and then I end up being the bad guy.. Later I figure out that he knew the whole time that the issue was #4, and that he also knew that I'd not take on the job if I thought there was a conversion complication. He was right, so now I just refuse to even talk about fitting an engine into a chassis that it doesn't;t belong in. Disciplines define so much. Knowing when something doesn’t feel right, and acting on that instinct is always a key. On top of that, it’s all related work. Whether it's an aircraft engine, M96, or a rotor head. I tend to treat these engines as if they are going into things with wings, not wheels. One of my current technicians used to be my boss, 25 years ago, when we both worked in the same aircraft shop. My time in the USMC was spent working on, and crewing CH-46 helicopters. Today, my daughter and I volunteer our time to keep Vietnam era Huey’s and Cobras flying, giving rides to civilians, and veterans at air shows across the southeast. Here’s the current project: Converting an original G model Cobra back to its original configuration after it was crashed 3 times, and upgraded to an S model. The bottom photo is what it looked like when we started, The top photo is how the canopy Retrofit looked after the last time Ava and I worked on it. We should have it airworthy in about 1 more year. I hate air frames work, I am just painfully working through the canopy conversion, and can't wait to reinstall the drive system back into this one. In exchange for our work, Ava and I get to go flying, and travel to events as crew members. How else can a 7 year old get to fly around, and work on relics like these? She loves it.

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Do you sleep? I don't see how you have time to sleep given all the things you have your hands in!

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Hey, that's my old plane! I got a fair amount of stick in the G models. I was selected for pickup and delivery service for a while and would come down here to TX, and get them to either Fairchild, or GD, I can't recall for avionics fitting in GA somewhere. Then, they would have a couple that were done with avionics and I would deliver to Ft Lewis, Hood, Dix(weird), Hauchuca, etc. One memorable trip leaving GA in summer, and hit a line to TS around N MO(maybe going to Lewis in WA state). Flight of four new birds, we had to land at this little county airport, lucky they had Jet. We were all low on gas, so we made this little airport rich at least for a day. But -- the weirdest trip was into Gray Army airfield, west Fort Hood. Without giving away too much, they did weird things there. With weird stuff, that went bang real, real loud. When I landed, there were three MPs with rifles, and I was escorted directly to the main gate, and my billet was across the hwy in Fort Hood. I tried to go back the next day and although I got on the base, the plane was gone! I think it went into a tunnel. I looked in my old logbook and if your plane is SN ending in 0455, you may want to get a geiger counter,,, just sayin! As for the 996, I'll get what I get, and use the engine out of it. thx

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My personal favorite �If you make something idiot proof they�ll make a better idiot�

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I think this one is 5342. I'll look tomorrow, as the tail boom is apart also.We have quite a bit of history on this one, including pics of a couple of the crashes. Nope, sleep is for pussies. Earlier this week my daughter and I had to go pick up a Spartan, and Sultan (tracked APCs) that I imported last month. CBP in Charleston thought it would be comical to detain them for a few weeks, so when we finally got them released, we had to drive them through downtown Charleston. Never a dull moment.

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That's too bad about your shipping experience. My experience was exactly the opposite. On the shipment to GA. the shipper showed up on the day promised with the proper amount of notice so I could meet up with them. I live on a small circle which is not conducive to large vehicle access and we figured out a place that would work for me and them. Great team. Treated my car with care and respect. On arrival I received an email from the shipper that my car had arrived on time. My car was completed two weeks early, shipment was arranged and car arrived safe and sound within 24 hours. Another great team who took care of my car like it was their own. The shipping fees were fairly priced for the service received i.e.: timely, caring and enclosed haulers. Besides the on time shipping the work at F6I was completed early. I couldn't be happier with my experience with F6I from first call to arrival home with an incredible engine.

^^^ Just wait til you drive the car some more. The experience keeps getting better! 👍

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After a few thousand miles things seal up nicely, and it does get better. wildbilly32 had a "normal experience" here.. No weird issues that took days to chase down, and the shippers did their part... His engine was also a virgin that hadn't been opened up before too, which also helped a lot. :-) So the moral of the story is "Results may vary based on things out of our control"

Excellent write-up!

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You have my complete sympathy,, but I'm going to steal that last line it applies to MANY things.. I work in IT ,, our experiences mirror mine ,, only tools and what were are taking apart are different.. And EVERYBODY else knows more than me.. They all tell me so..

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Yep, but when you fall onto the top of the mountain (at least that's how people think we got here) you are expected to answer for everyone else's deficiencies, and accept them as your own. Anything less leads to "disappointment" and a compromise of the entire project. Life was a hell of a lot easier when I was a kid building engines in a chicken house with a dirt floor, and a broken lamp hanging over a rafter.

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Yeah, but your selection of toys to play with is a lot longer now!

I wonder what a Raby rebuild would cost using a new short block from Porsche, 3.6 to 3.6 with all his tricks for reliability and longevity?

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My guess is it would be more than a running m96 engine. Because you would have to pay for heads and all the stuff a short block doesn't include. Plus the engine would have to be torn down and all the OEM failure prone pieces and parts would have to be discarded. Maybe Jake will chime in.

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One would have the heads and any other usable parts that don't go back to Porsche for the exchange. I hope he does chime in on this as I would think there would be less work vs a motor that failed..

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This decision is very personal. In my case, I bought a 02 carrera with 49K. Beautiful condition. IMS upgrade done. Did all the homework. Etc. Two years later and I have a tick. Probably rod knock. Rebuild or scrap it? The price of the car is a sunk cost. Can�t think economically with cars and certainly not with Porsche. So, I can pay an additional $25K-ish and have a bad *** 996 for the rest of my life, sell it as a roller and never look back, or buy newer but used Porsche ($40K?) with upgraded engine design. First, I do want to continue to drive a Porsche 911. Nothing like it. The way I see it, for an additional $25K I�m where I wanted to be from the beginning, but with a lot more sense of long term reliability security (was always worried this day would come) and improved performance. In all, I really wind up paying $50K for the car of my dreams anyway. The upside with sticking with an �02 is that it�s not anywhere near as complicated and fussy as a later 2000�s model. Maybe a flat6innovation rebuild will result in higher resale in 10 years? Who knows? That�s where I�m at in my thinking at this point, anyway. Still pondering.

Quotes source post: 16437457

^^^ This is very close to the thought process I followed. This is a car I always wanted and had put a lot of personal time and details into. It's not something I'm going to drive for a year or two, then look to sell. Re-sale really has no place in the equation...It's "maybe sometime in the future" at best - there are no guarantees...

I took a different route, bought a roller (02) for $4K with a long term plan of getting an FSI rebuild...Then a member hooked me up with his 50K mile Factory replacement ($6K) when he parted out his car. Once I swapped motors and had the chance to enjoy the car (it's a keeper) I'm all in on a bullet proof FSI rebuild! I feel like a little kid waiting for Christmas!!

If i knew then what I know now i would have purchased my 1st 996 with the intent to immediately get on FSI waiting list for an elective rebuild (sorry if rebuild isn�t the right word). Now i just have to resist the temptation to do exactly that with a 2nd 996, or buy one that has already been through a FSI build. Such 1st world problems....

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I bought mine on a whim and have never looked back. I keep cars I like for a loooong time. I just sold my 1993 300ZX last year which I bought in 1994. The 996 will probably stay until I can no longer get in and out of it. That is why when the boring score bit me I knew what I was going to do just needed to choose which version. Was it expensive? No...not for what I got and the best choice for me. Cars are not an investment for me, in fact my investment advisor just shakes his head at my toys saying "no return on that investment." He is young and doesn't understand that there is more to life than just making money. To Michael: are you sure your tick is a rod knock and not bore scoring?

Quotes source post: 16437457

I deal with people that have this mindset all the time. every week. Before I say what I post below, I will state that this is a personal decision, and I never try to sway someone either way. With the issues we are seeing with 2009-2016 models now, I know that if someone chooses the newer car (because they **think** it's better because its newer) that they'll end up coming to see me later, anyway. Whether they want to or not, or don't believe it, they'll end up considering what we offer later- they just don't know it yet. To me a Porsche is supposed to be a simpler car. It's supposed to be a smaller car than the 997.2 or especially the 991 and newer cars, that have become freaking huge. I work with Porsche engines from the Gmund era all the way to 2018 at this point, and I am building a Gmund engine for Mr. Collier, after I finish his current 356 engine I am finishing as we speak. I don't like complex cars, personally, or professionally. I like points, and carburetors, and that's not because I'm an old geezer, its because I like simple. Keep in mind that I'm so simple, that the only Porsche I am keeping in my stable is my old '76 912E, which is a compete bastard Porsche, fitted from the factory with a 914 engine. To me, the 996 is the end of the simple cars for Porsche. It's the end of the smaller cars that have the feel of a sports car. I drive everything with my engine fitted, from a 356 to a 991 all the time. On average I log 12,000 miles/ year on the same 52 mile mountain loop known as "The Flat 6 Ring" where we break in, and test our engines before they are shipped home. Of all the cars I drive, nothing offers the all around experience of the 996.1, and I prefer the oldest one I can find. A few weeks ago I was testing cars back to back with my test driver, who is employed to only drive cars with our engines. He makes loops, tests systems, and logs miles as his only job. We had two cars to test before they could both leave on the same truck, together. Of curse, I always get my choice of what car I will drive, and we had a 991 with our 4.2L engine, and '99 996 with a March 1998 build date to test. The 996 was equipped with a Stage 1 "Plus" 3.8L engine. I tossed him the keys to the 991, and I drove the early car. He was shocked, because he expected me to want to drive the newer car, that made 100HP more than the 996. Nope. As we crossed the mountains, many times I could not see the 991 in my rearview of the 996. At times I didn't see the 991 for 15-20 seconds, as we were leisurely driving, and doing some heavy engine braking on the long grades to help seat the rings in both engines as part of the regimen. Later that day, the 991 needed a second loop after we tuned it, and also a 1997 Boxster with my R51 engine needed a loop. I chose to drive the 97 Boxster, and left the 991 for the test driver, again. He was happy, and so was I. If you get to experience these are everyday, you learn what truly means something to you about them. Since I cut my teeth on aircooled Porsche cars, I tend to like what I remember from my early times with the marque, before it was ruined by the modern day industry and a huge chunk of the owners. I try to turn that off at times, and wonder if I could be forced to like the newer, bigger and more complex offering. Not so far. We've been whipping the 09' and newer cars and engines into submission since 2010, so we've got a really good feel of them, and the very first one we built was my 4.2, BUT I still don't like to modify these newer engines as much as the predecessor. Anyway, enough about new Vs old. Don't take what I have stated as anything more than a personal opinion from first hand experience. I will always be biased to whatever is the simplest, and most forgiving to my mechanical manipulation. I don't like "new" and I don't like plastic stuff. The same goes with the firearms I collect, I'll take a Colt revolver, or a WW2 era rifle made of iron, and wood, over anything made of polymer. Even if they polymer pile of crap will outperform the old stuff, I still don't want it. It's just me, and I know that I'm odd. I keep it real! That said, the choice to create a car with my engine is a real decision. This year I have purposely complicated the procedures enough to really make people think about their decision to purchase my engine, and keep their car long term, or forever. Worksheets that ask very real questions in a direct manner are one part of this. The idea is to ensure we never have someone purchase something fr the wrong reason, then part way through the long process they decide to bail, or get hard to please, because they changed their mind. It's also to ensure they'll appreciate what we create, as this is not a retail style of purchase, and we are soaking 150+ hours of our lives into this one engine. I don't want that life to be wasted. When I assign a builder to an engine, he will be someone who has worked here for at least 14 years, and he will do 100% of every task associated with that engine with his own hands, without assistance. This is from engine extraction, disassembly, machining, balancing, reassembly, and the first start. Other than admin time from the office staff, he will pour his life into this engine, and he doesn't want that to be wasted, or to go without appreciation. Each year old world craftsmanship dies more and more, and the "amazon mindset" gets more and more implemented. In a world where you strike a key, and get some generic crap tomorrow, we don't and won't offer that here. The owner of the car has to appreciate the 996 for what it is, and not try to make it something that is not, and cannot be. Yesterday i had a guy call and say "I am trying to mimic GT3 performance". Automatically, that dude isn't going to appreciate what I create in most cases. I had to explain that we don't try to recreate something the factory did, but rather something the factory cannot do, and that is build this engine by hand. there's a 997.2 for sale with my 4.0 on RL Marketplace now, for 62K. You'll probably be looking for a long time to find a car with my engine fitted, as people have us do this work, so they can keep the car forever in most cases. If not, they'd buy some pile of crap built from generic parts, and advertised in magazine, for less than 1/3 the price of my engine, and they'd sell the car. I never tell people what they should do. I tell them what I can do for their generation of car, and they have to make their own mind up. This is why I employ no salespeople. Sometimes people ask what Porsche I own, because they want to hear me boast. When I tell them I drove a 60 year old VW beetle to the shop that day, or a 6x6 Austrian fire truck, they really scratch their heads. Exactly. Spoken like a true victim of bore scoring would ask it, too! Rods knock on their way out of the crankcase, pistons tick as they try to scream for help. You gotta know the difference :-)

It is funny you mention the size of cars, I've been saying myself that the 996 was the beginning of the end of an era. I think the 996 represents a bridge between past and present, its not perfect but its also not bloated and dangerously fast.

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Looking at the bits they pulled out of the oil, I speculate rod bearing, but either way I�ve decided not to run it anymore. Still starts and drives but I don�t want to do anymore damage as I�m trying to keep it less of an ordeal for when I can get the FSI work done on it. Hopefully the avoidance will make the job suck less.

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I really appreciate the response. I can�t see myself moving away from the 996 and I�m not going to throw good money at a used engine. It�s a passion and I�ll have to be patient for the next chapter using an FSI solution. Meantime she�ll sit under the veil.

My philosophy when it comes to 996's (non-GT cars) is a $40k 996 is cheaper than a ~$20k-$25k 996. Buy a roller, F6I engine rebuild, enjoy car with all the major maintenance items completed. The problem is most people dont want to spend the ~$40k up front even though they will pay one way or another later on.

Wow that 997.2 for sale with Jake�s 4.0L looks amazing. Never driven a PDK, but i could learn... Not sure how to value such a beast?

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Value it based on how much YOU LOVE it. There's no price guide that's applicable. At the price its listed at, I can't believe that it's not sold already.

If you think M96's are expensive, have a look into PDK's... you may want to stick with a virtually bulletproof Manual 6 speed...

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I agree.. My 8 year old daughter walks by cars at events and tells the driver of 2 pedal cars that "real cars have 3 pedals". She can drive a manual gearbox equipped vehicle better than most millennial males.

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Here's my confession: I own a '06 C2S but I'm same way about keeping cars. I feel like I gotta squeeze all the life out of them that I can. We have four cars at home and the newest is my wife's 2001 Prius, the oldest our '99 4Runner. I've had my '01 Beetle since new and eight years ago decided I needed more pull so I bumped it up to 2.0 from 1.8 and put a bigger turbo on her - almost hit 300HP on the dyno with 91 octane. I threaten to sell that VW but it aint gonna happen until I find me a Thing to replace it. I still drive that car as much as I drive my Porsche, which I bought with 184,000 miles on the clock for $17K. I saw the 997 on craigslist, my wife told me to get it or she would murder me in my sleep and the next morning I had my first P-car. I had read a lot, of course, about a whole range of issues that guaranteed the car wouldn't even make the drive home, but the motor sounded good and on a professor's salary this was about my only chance. (Isn't Jake always warning against that) At the time I had too much fear that the 996 would grenade just from looking at them So I have a car, that I really enjoy and after nearly two years of ownership at 194K its getting near time to be reworked. I've gained some incredible insight into these motors, both from Jake's class and this forum. While I may never get to the level of one of his builds, I feel fairly confident I can work out a strong running motor that will hopefully last 200,000 more miles. If I knew how to make money, not just spend it, and I wasn't so damned stubborn I'd have one his motors in my car already. Everyone that has one doesn't seem to look back. Is it rational to love a car, probably not, but it sure keeps me happy and I get to share a camaraderie with some good-natured, and somewhat like minded people. As Scott (at Team Harco) would remind me to say... Keep your stick on the ice. BTW, wildbilly32. What's a financial advisor

My wife already stamped the hall pass and my birthday was few days ago..... Availability of 4 year48k Fidelity power train warranty removes some trepidation. Trip to Chicago might be in my future.

I recently had an opportunity to buy a friend's 997.2 S at a very good price (the dealer trade-in amount) but just couldn't see it as an upgrade over my 04 with its Stage II engine. His was PDK, mine's a Tip (because my clutch knee has given up so a MT was off the table). But just don't like the bloated feel of the 997.2 and the extra 100+ lbs and all the little nanny controls and creature comforts that will break. And this engine!

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My daughter wouldn't let me sell my BMW 330Ci when I got my FSI build back - because SHE wants it. She's 14 and learning how to drive...with a stick. By her choice.

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That makes ALL the difference...doesn't it!?

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In my case it's a dude my wife made me go to because I wanted to stuff any money I had under the mattress!

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Ava started on my 1962 Cub Cadet tractor.. Then she moved up to our Honda ACTY mini- truck. Now she drives my Iltis, Munga and M422 Mighty Mite, and recently she fell in love with our M274 Mechanical Mule

When you start thinking about 996s (or any other exotic sports car for that matter) in financial terms, none of it makes any fiscal sense. We buy these cars for the joy of driving them, not as an investment. Buuuut.... even if I do the math, I�ll be all in for around $45k. For this, I get a C4S with the sexiest azz in the P car world and an elective build with a stonking brand new 4.0L engine. $45k would get me a decent used 997.2 with around 60k miles. I�d have no idea how the car was treated or how many more miles I�d get out of it. Is the 997.2 interior better? Maybe. But I like the full leather in my �02 just fine. And I really like the compact size and feel of the car. And that rear end just can�t be beat. The biggest issue for me will be the 4 month wait between when I drop the car off in July to when I get it back in Oct. 1st world problems, I know. And Jake... if this guy ever resigns: � my test driver, who is employed to only drive cars with our engines� . You know who to call 😁

It's not a fun job. It's probably the most stressful thing that we do, as everything is so critical in the first 104 miles of the engine's life, as it makes two passes on the ring. You have to keep your head on a swivel, pay attention to every noise, and every smell, while gathering data, and shifting gears at the exact same places over and over again. Carrying the same speed on the downhill grades, while in the same gear, so everything is done the same way to every car. Watching temperatures, paying attention to the color of tailpipes, and etc. After a while a 6th and 7th sense is created, where you can grade the engines against each other when it comes to smoothness, power, and etc. That's what people that randomly build a few of these engines can't ever get. You've got to do this a few hundred times to have those senses be created. My record was driving 5 different cars, 900 miles in the same day, over and over again I'd bring a car back to the shop, download the data, and my crew would have the next car ready to go. I'd hop in, and go hit the ring, and they'd strap the car I just finished onto the dyno. We'd create a tune for it and by the time I got back, they'd have it ready to go with the new tune loaded, and I'd swap cars, and go back out again to compare data and gather logs. Yeah, there are people who go their entire lives and never have to wait this amount of time for anything. Those instant gratification things that everyone is hooked on is making the wait impact people worse, too. We've had humans conceived and born many times while in process with an engine purchaser. The baby hits 3 months old before we finish the engine, and we started the processes before the baby was conceived. We've also had customers pass away while they waited, get divorces, die in plane crashes, die in the World trade Center on 9/11 and you name it. I refuse to speed it up, and make it generic. We are all happy the way that it is, and we have been for the last 18 years. The whole place, and process works like one well-oiled machine, and creating that balance was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

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I was so jazzed up on this thread, I just went for a nice 30 mile loop in the Marin headlands...VERY twisty with lots of elevation gains and drops. Loving this build and once at operating temp, the engine is starting to find its voice!

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Awesome! Did a 175 mile loop from Danville t Lake Berryessa to Napa back to Danville recently. Pure driving bliss. And that was with the stock 3.6. Which still hauls.

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That is an awesome drive!! Let me know if you ever want to get together and do a wine country tour....sorry to the rest of you 996 Rennlisters that aren't out here!

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I�d definitely be up for that 👍

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OMG! That looks like a fun place to live! It would have been paradise for me when I was a kid (or now... ). Even school days; get home home from school, rush through homework (or save it for after dinner) go work on some projects (I loved bicycles, mini bikes, motor cycles too) and then when you get bored go shoot or blow something up! Weekends? FORGEDDABOUDDIT !!!!

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I was never good at math , but totally agree with you the 996 with the right engine is a perfect sports car. Nothing against the folks who own or want one but the new ones are too big with too many creature comforts-bells and whistles-nannies-plushy things. If I wanted a Cadillac I would buy a Cadillac! ...and as far as wanting the driver dude's job... get in line!! I put my name in for that with Jud last year! I'm retired and have all day every day! Seriously there's probably a line longer than those at a big city DMV ahead of us already. On the waiting it goes by faster than you can imagine. I just kept in mind how great it will be when it gets back because it is getting done properly. Of course when I got jonesing for some excitement I went out and thrashed the Type R for a while. Fun car but it's not a 996 with a Jake "hammer" in the back.

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Reliable is always my 1st choice !

[QUOTE=Flat6 Innovations;16438773]It's not a fun job. It's probably the most stressful thing that we do, as everything is so critical in the first 104 miles of the engine's life, as it makes two passes on the ring. You have to keep your head on a swivel, pay attention to every noise, and every smell, while gathering data, and shifting gears at the exact same places over and over again. Carrying the same speed on the downhill grades, while in the same gear, so everything is done the same way to every car. Watching temperatures, paying attention to the color of tailpipes, and etc. After a while a 6th and 7th sense is created, where you can grade the engines against each other when it comes to smoothness, power, and etc. That's what people that randomly build a few of these engines can't ever get. You've got to do this a few hundred times to have those senses be created. My record was driving 5 different cars, 900 miles in the same day, over and over again I'd bring a car back to the shop, download the data, and my crew would have the next car ready to go. I'd hop in, and go hit the ring, and they'd strap the car I just finished onto the dyno. We'd create a tune for it and by the time I got back, they'd have it ready to go with the new tune loaded, and I'd swap cars, and go back out again to compare data and gather logs. I never liked Porsche because my hot rod street rods were way faster at street racing for money. I got a job test driving new cars to prep them before delivery to Automotive Journalists. When we got the 2000 Porsche account I soon fell in love with them and hated weekends. In 2003 a management change prompted me to quit the job I had loved & by my own 2000 Boxster S. In 2009 Jake offered his 1st engine rebuilding class for M96 engines, & I was the 4th guy to signup. As soon as I got home I pulled my engine out (IMSB was at stage 3 failure mode) & sent my case to LN to convert to 3.6 Litre. Now this is how it looks to 996's et

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Yep, Ava gets home from school, does her homework then comes to the shop. Some days she just rides her dirt bike, and Go Kart, and other days she works on a project, or her dragster. We are getting her back up engine ready for this season, and I'm adding an accessory on my dyno that we have at my home shop, so we can dyno her race engines. Other days we shoot guns, and blow things up. She's working her way up to the Ma Deuce, I think I can have her ready to fire it in a couple more weeks. She's currently "pretending".

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That's a video that's gotta go up on the Rennvision channel when she gets there. Good to see you're bringing her up right!

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Today she said she wanted to fire the M2HB this weekend. Double hearing protection and other safety gear is a must! She and I are loading up the rounds we�ll shoot tomorrow, then we�ll belt them up. How many 8 year old girls can read a recipe, and load a 50BMG round with only supervision ? :-)

So, updates on Flat Six longevity? I've looked at two for sale in the past month with a Stage II package. I read nothing contrary to saying these builds are worry-free and I will be able to sleep at night without worrying about failure like I would with a factory stock motor. These threads are fun to read and almost reassuring as I find my way into my next new fun car.

Does anyone have any leads for FSI built engine or a completed car for sale 911 only please I have a buyer for my car but only want a motor built by fsi stage 2 or better Mike

https://pcaucr.org/classifieds/show-...r-sale-wanted/ Someone posted this in another thread today, I have no affiliation in anyway

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Submit a ticket and get on the contact list we have for those wanting cars with our engines. There's about 3 dozen more people on that list currently. That one does not appear to be sold by our original purchaser, I do not recognize that name.

Wow, blast from the past! 3+ years and 16k miles on and I�m still loving the FSI stg II track performer... Thanks Jake, Judd and the crew! I won�t be selling...😉

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That's the best news that I can get. Yours was a pain, and it changed a lot of protocols here that remain in place today in regard to vehicle shipping. 16K in 3 years, drive it more! That mileage should be at least double :-) Don't sell it, you can't replace it for anywhere close to what it was 3 years ago.

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Mine's not going ANYWHERE except for the back roads of Northern California and occasional days at Sears Point and Laguna Seca!

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Maybe I should get a chunk of FSI engine owners together for a Zoom roundtable to share tales and experiences on YouTube Live? Sound like fun?

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I'd be in on that!

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I'll put it together in the fall :-)

Shortest thread in RL history would be "Dissatisfied FSI Owners"!!!

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No, some planted trolls would send that one to the moon.. It's coming one day. They can't stop me any other way, and they know it. They better wake up real early the day they initiate that attack. I have been ready for it for years. I once foiled a plot where someone was going to spend the money to buy an engine, and go through the full process just for the only purpose being the ability to complain. A company bought the car broken and had one of their friends titled it in their name, and that guy then became our purchaser for a Stage II engine. I do not know if they were buying the engine to disassemble it, and copy it, or if they were going to have this person end up being "that guy" who could not be pleased, and yelled on every forum how bad the engine was. I overheard two attendees of one of my Worldpac Training Institute classes talking about it over lunch at a class I was instructing. They thought I was outside talking on the phone, but I was really just on the other side of a curtain that separated two presentation rooms in a hotel. When I got back home, added up the pieces of the puzzle, and refunded their first payment for the engine, plus 100 additional bucks along with a note, explaining they had better luck next time. They never called or contacted me again. The two guys in the class were employees of the company. I was already watching them closely when I saw the company they worked for pop up on the attendee manifest. One day when I can publish all the things I have experienced in my travels, you guys won't believe it.

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This is something I'll never understand...cheating. Instead of challenging one's self to meet (or beat) the competition via learning, experimentation, experience and LEARNING, these crapbirds organize some scheme to try to take down someone who is doing their own thing and built a (great) reputation. Cheap. It's like watching a football game and seeing a team intentionally trying to injure the better players to knock them out instead of just being better. That's not victory - that's cheating. Honesty, integrity and willingness to learn from mistakes are paramount in my book.

My car is not going anywhere. The kids might not have to worry about it when I'm gone either as I might just "take" it with me.

Somebody somewhere is buried in their Porsche, stranger things have happened.

Hah! Rumor has it that for 996 owners, heaven is a continual track day in your 996 at Road America, with no bore scoring, oil starvation, oil stability or cooling issues. Just consistent sub 2:20 times on sticky tires. And flat out thru the kink. so bring your car with you.

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Not cheating means spending real money, and real time to make developments, test them, and build a reputation. They won't do that. It is much easier to lie, steal, and imitate. You can do the latter with a few high dollar ads in a publication, especially after the editors get enough stuff for free from the vendor.. I used to read those articles and laugh, now I just throw the magazines in the trash while they are still in their wrapper.

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Just wait till I'm done putting mine in this fall!

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I'll probably do it just before I open sales for the 2023 season, which happens in September.

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Cool! I'm in. Mine should be 1500-2000 miles in by then...

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Jake if you can tell us, on your engines M96 what�s the oldest rebuilt time running and mileage. Yesterday I saw a 99 cab with 237k miles on original engine, tranny was refresh 1-2 synchro was bad. The owner said that it would only use about a qt every 800 to 1000 miles. He drives it every weekend and sometimes takes it to work once a week.

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The oldest one is pushing 19 years old at this point. Mileage? I don't even know.. When we finish jobs the cars just go away and stay away. Usually we'll do follow ups at the 1K point to unlock the break in tune, and then follow up at the mileage points leading up to 7,500 miles/ 1 year. After that I cut them loose, and most of them we never hear from again. We try not to bother them, circle back to sell them crap, or etc. They have all the directives to get them through the first 120K miles of owning my engine, with a service schedule showing everything that needs to be done in both time, and mileage at every service interval. Sometimes someone from years ago will shoot us a message to say they still own it, and it is still going strong. By the same token, every now and then someone from years ago will need a MAF sensor, have a wiring problem, or etc and they'll reach out for support.

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I am not an original FSI customer, but I suspect my purchase was the one that made you re-think putting your 996 4.0 on BAT. Would be great to join this Zoom if you'd add me to the list. Loving my 3.8 FSI 996 so far after one year of ownership.

Sounds like a cool idea. Count me in.

I just reconsidered when I thought of all the potential nightmares that could unfold if the wrong person ended up with that car, or bought it for the wrong reasons. I'm happy, and the buyer is happy. It would have been cool for others to see how much money it brought, but that's ok. I made enough to buy a 1942 M3A1 Scout Car, and have a little left over.

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I feel this way about bearings. Although they must wear out, I think they fail more often than they wear out

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When something is comprised from components that were sourced from the lowest bidder, and when the accountants are in charge of the engineering, everything changes. I will agree that at times I think it is better to leave certain things alone. In my personal collection I have a lot of really old vehicles, some 80-90 years old. Some original vehicles that haven't been touched since the 60s can be leak free, and leaks can start if you just clean the underside of the vehicle, as an example. This is where first hand experience comes in more than any other. We don't just know what to change, and when, but we also know what not to change, what not to do, and when. That's based from direct experience, and mistakes. The engine is the instructor, and you better pay attention in class.

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I have a 03 land rover that doesn't leak. I just thought I'd put that out there.....Sometimes it sounds like a rod is knocking. Maybe it's out of oil

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2003 isn't old.. My newest rover has a 200TDI and it knocks like a tractor. It's supposed to.

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yes it's not old in age but old in design. I would love to fix it up and install a diesel of some type. I looked in to it a little. I thought about a 2 liter VW diesel. they ought to be plentiful

dporto...I just wanted to thank you for your write-up. I'm pretty new to the Porsche world and I have been pondering what do with my 997.1 Before I bought it in 2020 I had it scoped and knew it had some bore scoring. I generally knew what that meant, so I went into it with eyes wide open so to speak. My car is running well currently, but I figure it is only a matter of time before it needs to be address so I'm looking at the various options out there. Anyway, your review has been particularly helpful.

Lots of things have changed here at FSI since @dporto submitted this review. In fact, I can't think of a single thing here that hasn't changed in some way since this was written. Everything is more difficult, pricing is no where even close, the engines make more power, but the line is longer than ever. I have to buy the world-wide supply of the components we use, whenever I see them available. I did this as soon as Covid hit, and that is one way that we have only been late delivering two (R- Series) engines since the Pandemic started, both of which were 3-4 weeks late due to camshafts. All the rest have stayed on time. Tell me anything else in your life that has happened according to schedule during this Pandemic? This proves the effectiveness of my program, and dedication to get the damn job done as agreed. All in all, this thread isn't relevant anymore, since the changes are so vast, right down to vehicle shipping. A lot of people waited too long to purchase an FSI engine, as I refuse to expand and kill everything I've created. I only sell engines once per quarter in 4 hour long, super detailed webinars. I didn't even post the last one here, because it was already filled and filled Q2 2023 completions in less than one hour after I opened the flood gates following the webinar. It even filled some Q3 dates that we already had known costs for, with components in hand, or allocated for delivery in Q1 2023. I have learned that educating my buyers with exceptional detail is the key to success, and accepting work. When Q3 is filled at the next webinar, I'm shutting down sales for an undisclosed period of time, so we can catch up on what we have. That means shutting down the phone system except to customers that need support for an existing engine, as well as closing the ticketing system. This is crazy, and it has been crazy for way too long. It'll probably be that way for at least 6 months~

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Wow, seriously big changes at F6I! I am so glad that I signed that contract and paid the first deposit in December 2019 and the process was smooth end to end. I remember the line getting longer and longer right after me haha. Glad to see you guys are busier than ever!

Congrats Jake. Any new engine developments you can discuss for the 996? new engines, enhancements for track and street engines? You also mentioned that the engines have become more powerful. Can you share any information? Thanks for the insight.

FSI, I'm glad to hear your are so busy. That's a great vote of confidence from the Porsche universe. I certainly expect that many things have changed over the years, but for me the thing that was so helpful from deporto's description was how you went WAY above and beyond to make sure he was happy. That is a company culture thing and is not likely to change. I don't think many other companies would have put as much effort into solving the fuel issue. I certainly would not have expected you to solve the transportation issue. FSI clearly had nothing to do with that...but it highlights your general approach to customer satisfaction. As a potential customer, that's the kind of thing I like to hear.

I got my 4.0 Stage 1 back from Jake & Co in September 2021; between then, and when the snow came in mid-December 2021, I put 5,000 glorious miles on it. I purchased the car in 2017 with 24,000 miles on it, loved it, then started doing some research on the ole internet. By 2019 I knew I was a lifer and needed to figure out how to maintain the car as I wanted it for another 10-15 years or get a newer model. I test drove the 997 and the 991, not for me. So I began my dialogue with Jake. It took some getting used to; fortunately, we were both prior service, and I had forgotten how much I appreciated the no bs approach. I don't want to sound like some groupie (I already stepped up and did the deal), but my experience with FSI was flawless! I am emotionally attached to my 911. Sometimes I go out in the garage and just look at it for about 15 minutes. Unfortunately, I sometimes sense from Jakes's posts that he is getting to the end of his program (patience). I think about all the guys like me out there who will not have the opportunity to have the FSI experience and drive a 996 or 997.1 with that engine and the peace of mind that goes with it. So for what it's worth, I'd like to thank you and your team.

Yeah, it would suck if FSI stopped doing rebuilds. Many of us have engines that aren�t bad enough to warrant a rebuild today, but might in a month or a year or two. While I can appreciate the idea of signing up while we have the chance, some engines just won�t die, or won�t die for another 5 or 10 years. When is a good time to pre-buy a dishwasher that�s 12 years old? It works fine today, but if it fails tomorrow, I might be hand washing dishes for the next 3 months.

I hear you, I did an elective because I am OCD and wanted to check that box so I could enjoy the car. Now if I could just locate that rattle in the dash!

I was pretty upset when my engine convinced me that it had the fatal disease of bore scoring. Now I thank my 2019 reconstructed FSI 3.8 Street Performer 1 engine for telling me every time I start it! If I decide to add an additional 996 to my fleet the first action I take will be to call Jake to get on the list regardless of how well it is running. Fanboi you say? Yes...yes I am and for a damn good reason.

My positive experience with FSI comes from a different angle . Early 2015 Jake and I started the discussion about rebuilding my 3.2 Boxster S into a 3.6 R51 . I am local so it was a simple handshake and we moved forward . Two months after the handshake and things moving forward I was diagnosed with prostate cancer ☹️. I contacted Jake and told him what was happening , he said no problem you get yourself healthy . He put my build on hold with no strings attached . He said when you are ready let him know and the switch will be turned back on . I was floored . I kicked the cancer to the curb and he finished the build the end of 2015 . I still have that car and I smile every time I drive it . I recently purchased a dead 996 C4 and a build of a 3.8 Stage II is moving forward . Being local I know the operation quite well , it is top notch no other way to describe it . As a community we are VERY lucky to have FSI as a resource . Sure it costs $$$ but quality always does .

Also glad to see you're doing well Jake. Thanks for all of your help along the way.

I hope Jake sticks around. He is probably sick and tired of all the trolls on this site giving him a bad time.

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The same people always caused the problems.. The sour it for me, and everyone else. I am sure they are glad that I seldom come here anymore. I had a decently worded response all typed up, answering people's questions, and expanding on things. Then I decided it wasn't worth posting, and deleted it. February is my last month of being a paid RL supporter, I waste 4K per year so I can come here to give people free information.For the last 3 years its been the only advertisement that I've done, and I'm ending that ASAP. We are going to keep doing what we've always done, you just won't hear about it, and seldom will you see me. That's how I retain what sanity I have remaining.

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Damn Jake, I am so sorry. The majority of us respect you and all the contributions that you have made. You are absolutely the best! Thanks for all the knowledge, information and guidance that you have provided to us over the years. I hope you will chime-in now and then, only when you feel up to it.

I�ve put nearly 20k mi. On my car since I got the stage II 3.8 built by FSI. It feels better now than the day I got it back. I can say that I�m absolutely ecstatic that I decided to pull the trigger when I did, as life�s circumstances have changed in ways that would have made doing it now, unlikely. It�s a shame that Jake�s time here seems to have run its course - the threads he contributes to are usually the most interesting and informative.

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Jake, It is a shame but as a businessman I certainly get it. You should find ways to monetize your knowledge with the least number of headaches. At the end of the day, it's what we all want for our businesses. Hate to see you completely disappear until we all need a rebuild. How do we continue to gain access to your knowledge and experience going forward? What are the next steps with your YouTube channel and other forms of social media.

Jake I for one appreciate your knowledge and feel at ease a little mentally not financially that your out there somewhere I came here from the E30 M3 group and the list of capable techs for the BMW has shrunk to 3. From 23 my M3 is 10 years older then my 99 Aero and I already see in the 996 horizon is shrinking plese don’t punish the group of us who look forward to your responses

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Words like these are the only thing that mean anything, anymore. Companies can advertise all they want, and pay millennial marketing experts to make them look better than they really are. At the end of the day the only reviews that matter are these first hand accounts that prove what we create is truly that damn good, and only gets better with time. More business means nothing. More money just means paying more taxes. While everyone is caught up in getting more, and having more I am going the other way. When I was ill with Covid in September I didn't miss a single day of work. I plowed right through it. I could not think, smell, taste, or hardly function. My wife got it worse than me, and got the viral pneumonia flavor of Covid-D. Since I work alone, I actually quarantined at the shop. A few days after I tested negative I had a crazy immune response, and broke out in a rash that looked like chicken pox... I had the worst case of cotton mouth you could imagine, and I felt like I was in another world... Then a few days later my memory was zapped, and I was pissed off at the world. If someone just looked at me I wanted to rip their head off... Memory is still gone, brain fog doesn't even come close to describing it, and I'm still pissed off. What filter I had left is broken. I say whatever I want, and do not care what anyone thinks about it. I had a meeting with my 2021 purchasers last night, and they probably thought I had been drinking (I don't drink at all) because I wasn't't who they had experienced during their build. Part of that comes with the territory that they are now family, and much more than a purchaser. We've lived through 14-20 months together, and a couple of them have owned more than one FSI powered Porsche. While I was ill with Covid I had a Zoom meeting scheduled with my (at the time) current engine purchasers, none of them even knew I was sick I refused to postpone or cancel it, just because I was sick. I wasn't going to tell them I was even infected until someone said "If you get sick how can you make us feel secure our job will be done?" That's when I lost it, and held up my fresh Covid-D + test results, from 1 hour before the meeting and told him not to worry, because mission accomplishment comes first to Marines, and is followed by troop welfare. His car was done on- time. Since then I REALLY haven't given a damn, and the gloves have been off. I don't come to these forums, or FB groups, because I know I'm really easy to **** off and my focus needs to be on doing the damn job, and staying on schedule. What that taught me was simple- nobody cares. They want theirs, and they don't give a damn about yours. They want theirs even if it kills you, or yours. Anyway, there's more to life, and these cars than forums, or FB groups. Just because I'm not here, or there telling everyone what we are doing, doesn't;t mean that it has stopped. I am still building engines personally (albeit at a much slower pace) and my guys are still kicking ***.. Some in earlier threads have asked about what my plans are, hell I don't really know because I can't think. I am still working on SUMEBore cylinder development, and refined cylinder head port profiles, while continuing with aircooled development as well. I get more done if my phone and computer stay turned off all day. I was supposed to have my M9X Performance Guide completed and off to the publisher, but I tabled it till my mind isn't so foggy. Right now my plan is to finish a controlled burn of my farm, and get ready to plant in the spring. My crew know that this is what I need to stay positive. I've sold all my Porsche cars (except 2) and invested that money in bulldozers, and land management equipment so I can keep my land up, and make a better habitat for my wildlife population. Yesterday I worked from daylight till dark with a chainsaw in my hand, moving logs with my Unimog. When I'm here there's no one for miles, no TV and very limited phone and satellite internet. I've gone two solid weeks without seeing anyone other than family. That what happens when you are 6 miles down a dirt road, and have Bald Eagles soaring above you. It puts everything back into perspective, and it reminds me of where I came from. Never forget where you came from, I know where I came from, and none of you want to go there. I'm not leaving here completely. I'll post as much as the powers at RL will allow me to as a non- paying supporter. We'll deliver everyone's engines on time, and we'll keep kicking *** just like we always have. I never started this place because I wanted to be a "businessman". I wanted to be an unleashed engine builder and developer with no one to answer to. I hate business, and that's why we strive so hard for perfect processes, and no hurdles. I think that success is the worst thing for people, since they stop giving it their all, and they start feeling like they have done it all. They get greedy, and they want more, and more, and more. They get so invested that they lose everything. That's not the case for me, I remember that I started all this in a barn with a dirt floor, and those around me helped to take it to the level it is at now. Purchasers and employees have built this business- not me.

Jake. Don't give up hope on the human race. There are good people out there. And a lot of **** heads as well. Funny thing is that human nature hasn't changed since the day we were put on this earth, nor has the ratio of good people to **** heads. Sorry to hear about what you and your wife went thru.

Jake may not remember, but I bought a 2nd hand Type 4 motor built by Jake for my beetle about close to 20 years ago. I had a timing issue after installing it and he was nothing short of helpful in helping me over the phone get it sorted. I left the car scene for about 15 years after that and have since come back to it now with a 996. For that reason, let alone all the other awesome things I see reading from other people, when it comes time to get my engine refreshed/new one, Jake will undoubtedly be who I use. Luckily I�m reasonably close (less than 4 hours). I�ve had high end swaps done in the past with other cars and I�ve ALWAYS driven it to their facility to avoid debacles with shipping like spoken of here. Cost, when figuring in time, it�s cheaper and far less stressful.

Sounds like you have long Covid. I think we're still learning about it and how long it lasts. Bummer

Stage 3? Does anyone have any experience with a full race FSI engine? If I continue to race my 1999 will need to consider engine rebuild at some time. You can contact me through PM if more comfortable for you. great thread write up and additional posted details. Thanks Rich

I�ve owned this shirt for 25+ years I take it out when it�s appropriate�. Speedy recovery Jake.

I've put around 6,000 miles on my FSI 4.0L Street Perfomer in the year and a bit that I've had it. Can't help but smile every time the tach needle swings to 7k (which is often). The engine revs so smoothly, it's like butter. Best way I can describe it.

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A couple of guys here have experience with them. @ltusler has been running one since 2009. I�m not taking on any Stage 3 engines at this point, and probably won�t again. Too much stress and too much �extra� hand holding is expected. I have a handful of racers we�ve been supporting for years and I�ll stick with them. hardly anything I build is going to conform to the rules set forth by some tech committee made up of people that have never built an engine.. My street engines aren�t even legal for most of these classes, and a Stage II makes more power on the street than a limited race engine does..The only racing that appeals to me is the kind where�s there�s no rules except for type of fuel to use and engine size. That�s why my wife Land Speed raced, no one cares how you built it, classes are built on fuel and engine size only. The rest is gloves off.

I've been waiting 13 months now for my elective build. Unfortunately I asked for as late a date in 2022 as possible for budgeting reasons, and Jake obliged. I just need to change the oil 1 last time this weekend, and then get in some driving to hold me over until my 996 comes back to me. I'm sure the time will fly by before my 996 heads to GA in July.

I am fortunate to have been a customer of Jake's but not in the way most would assume. I wasn't grabbing a Stage# build slot or campaigning to gain access to his expertise. I simply inquired about a motor that FSI was rumored to have in stock. I never expected to talk to Jake himself, but there he was on the phone when my call was explained. The genuine, and I mean genuine in the realest sense, attention and value he placed on making sure that I fully understood everything possible about that motor floored me. I wasn't expecting it. This wasn't a $40k build customer. That motor is sitting on a pallet in my barn and is being stored with all the necessary instructions for its future. I even have a personal video from Jake himself going over it in detail. Stunning level of customer service. Just unheard of. At 63 years old I actually prefer the brutally honest approach of Jake over the modern world slickness. And I'm fortunate enough to be in the rare club of fellas driving a Porsche knowing that the car will outlive ME and hopefully be someone else's to enjoy after I'm gone.

Jake, thank you for all of the support through the years. The information you personally gave me saved me from a probable catastrophe with my car. I am truly grateful for your direct and honest approach to business, and your encyclopedic knowledge on our cars, based on all of your research and development. Best wishes as you move forward.

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I�m anxiously awaiting your car�s completion. You�ve been waiting a long time!

From above: "If you get sick how can you make us feel secure our job will be done?" That guy is an *******...hopefully he just had a bad moment. Jake, I really hope you can continue to muster the will power to tolerate difficult folks. I'm 95% sure that if it wasn't for the massive amount of information you provided over the years ( and the youtube videos ) I would never have felt comfortable buying the car that I dreamed of for 40 yrs. I needed to know that if I had an engine issue there was a good option to fix it. If I hadn't bought the car, not only would I have missed out on one life's great pleasures(pushing that car hard on a curvy road), but I would have missed out on the community of local car nuts. I'm sure many folks have similar stories, so I hope you can draw some positive energy from remembering how many folks you help that you haven't even met.

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Nope, that guy is the rule today, not the exception. I appreciate your statement, but one jackass can make up for 10,000 positive vibes. Last week I did manual labor from daylight till dark, for 5 solid days. The day that I control burned my property I was up and going for 20 hours making sure the fires were tended and didn't jump my break. Cutting down trees, running a dozer, skidding timber, and etc is hard work, but I never got tired. I come back to the shop this morning, and within 4 hours I was mentally, and physically exhausted.. I am done for the day, already. The difference there is human interaction, and business. Both of which kick my ***, and **** me off.

Sounds like an opportunity. For 20 years, I used to work on computers or mechanical things. I didn�t much care for people. I�d rather fix computers. People were challenging, unpredictable, emotional, and all sorts of drama. But then I learned how to work with people. And now it�s lovely. People rarely get the better of me, and I rarely get upset with them now that I understand them. Sure, it took another 20 years to master, but like anything, once you understand how it works, you stop having difficulty with it. Strange to think that working on an engine is just business, but working with people is also just business. Same principles - they are complex at first, make you crazy, and you fail over and over again. But eventually you learn how they work, and your frustration dissolves once you accept that things are the way they are, no matter if it�s engines or people.

Working on an engine has never been business to me. It has never been work. My give a damn with people is broken. If the people were the same as they were when I started this business 27 years ago, I'd have no problems. I used to enjoy that, but not today. Amazon, instant gratification, and entitlement has made an impact. No one has to think, they have a device to do that for them. Too bad that device can't make them constantly aware of the Golden Rule, and slap the **** out of them when they break it.

Lol You're just getting old. (ask me how I know) I predict it will actually get better because with getting old you finally not only SAY you don't care what some folks say/do, but rather you really don't. It stops bothering you. It's liberating. Or put another way, and it's a bit revealing about me personally, but I came to the conclusion that the ONLY things that really matter are the things that really matter. Hint: Tragedy can reveal what I mean.

30 years in management for a major transportation company taught me one thing: My job would be so easy if I didn't have to deal with people.😬

All you need to do is have FSI complimentary comfort blankets. You can give one out to everyone you have to deal with. Don't forget to give them a trophy as well.

Can I ask a stupid question since we're on the topic of FSI? When you purchase an engine, do they use your existing block/engine as a base? Or do you keep your existing engine as-is and receive all new everything? Thanks!

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Hell, you can't even find anyone to print/ embroider them.. I've just gotten super direct, hoping that I run off the people that can't handle me. Life after Covid left me that way, plus I can't remember who they are because the brain fog has me, so its actually a good thing.

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The program has always been about using the customer's existing engine. No mass production here, and no engine swapping/ core charge BS fees, or drama. That will have to change, since it is proving impossible to do this style of building beyond Q3 or maybe Q4 of 2023. We will have to shift into building what engines can be built from what parts can be found without compromise, then sell them once 100% complete. No deposits, no timelines, and no commitments. Right now its about getting to that point. This whole industry is about to undergo a huge transformation, but many business owners don't know it. They don't see it from deep inside. It'll bite them, and will bite their purchasers even harder.

Makes sense. Thanks Jake!

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Be as direct as you want. He'll of a lot better than being squirrely.

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Jake, what do you see happening?

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What has already happened.. The newest �datum� code on any part that we have seen from OE/OEM suppliers has been July of 2020. Manufacturers are concerned with new car part manufacturing. They have to keep their contracts in place. They don�t give a damn about 15-20 year old cars. It�s taking all their resources to barely fill the OE/OEM orders. Its not a supply system shortage for these cars, it is a component manufacturing shortage. I deal with higher ups at all the import companies/ warehouse distributors because I test and develop parts they sell. This is another way that I get parts that no one else can get.

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Are the component manufacturers giving any indication as to when they may catch-up? What is causing the shortage? Is it that manufacturers where running lean inventories to begin with, then covid hit and manufacturing slowed due to shutdowns coupled with increased demand due to covid stimulus projects? Is it lack if labor due to folks walking away from jobs? Is lack of raw material availability? From your perspective, what's causing it?

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All if the above, coupled together. The main issue is that new car manufacturing has the priority, and the OEs must have their dates met, if not the company can lose the contract for the future. No one is concerned about parts for a 15-20 year old engine when they can barely produce enough to meet the new car demands. The bigger issue is the sub- standard junk that is being substituted because that is all that can be acquired. A couple of manufacturers have used this to their advantage to start making additional components to fill these voids. Their parts have little testing done, and horrible quality control.

Yep, I get it. No question that we will be in a supply pickle for another year or two, which doesn't bode well near term for arresting inflationary pressures. Nor does it bode well for those waiting on the availability of high quality components. This is a very ugly macro environment that unfortunately will take years to unwind and repair. The law of unintended consequences as a result of covid policy decisions is alive and well. Hang in there. You will find solutions.

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I am working under the assumption that not will not get any better, only worse. Once the chip issues are solved the OEs will turn up the volume on hard parts that are needed to actually finish cars that can't be finished now. OEMs will always go to the OE, because that's who they can't afford to lose. With no new manufacturing being done for most all the essential parts we need, once it is gone, it is gone.I depleted the USA stocks, then mostly the EU stocks, and now we are working on taking parts from Asian warehouses. I bought loads of parts, and we are good through the end of Q3 2023, but after that it'll be time to change gears, so we have to do that now, in an effort to change into the right gear, and keep going.

Provided the economy remains strong and the demand high, how does this get solved? Must be someone to step and produce?

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Yea itS Dorman .

I suppose that could be good or scary.

An inevitable Recession in 2023 or at the latest 2024 will solve it.

I'm not wishing that on anyone, while maybe naturally inevitable, it's been a good ride business wise.

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It really doesn�t. If someone steps in they will be selling parts without adequate development, which will just mean failure. It takes YEARS to develop these items and be able to trust them. One company has already been trying to capitalize on this, but they sell junk. Items like chain tensioners and chain rails would take tens of thousands of dollars to tool up for, and the person that makes them would never be able to get an ROI that makes it worth doing. The only thing we can do is build what we can find the parts for, and keep going. That likely won�t be M9X engines.

So even while there are specs someplace for these parts, manufacturers cut corners corners or quality assurance isn�t there. That is you get to be QA.

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Porsche holds all of that. It�s one thing to deal with development of one random part, but when you are dealing with dozens of parts, it�s another. Engines are going to end up being built with replacement parts that are not known, just because builders will be desperate and will do whatever they have to for survival. Not here, we�ll find something else to build. Ive already diversified the scheduled to include more air cooled, GT/ Turbo and 9A1 engines. The idea is to spread out the builds so we can still get parts to cover them as we find more. Today 61 fuel injectors showed up in the system for the first time, and we bought all 61 of them.

Well that explains why I can't get fuel injectors 😂😂

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These weren�t stock� Actually not even Porsche injectors.. One of my long time employees sits behind her desk all day sniping parts. She buys everything we can find. We are buying parts now for engines that are going to be built in March of 2023 and are already sold. It�s taking this long to find everything we need. At times parts are showing up the week we are going to use them, yet they were ordered 40 weeks prior. I have parts everywhere.. She has even ended up storing parts inside her office.. Bins are filled with parts� It is beyond crazy, but it is working and we are staying on- time.

Time to put aluminum chrevy v8�s in these cars.

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No Thanks.

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This is really interesting. I'm going to assume you're having this difficulty because of Covid.... Maybe I'm wrong. Regardless, this "deadly virus" (I'm sorry, but I'll go out and say all of this is just ridiculous - it's certainly a real thing and definitely put me on my *** when I had it, but not worth the fear and stopping the global economy as we know it - I mean seriously, people need to wake up and understand where this is going (it's not good as-is, mind you)) has really thrown just about everything for a loop. I really don't know where this is all going, but good on you for making a move and scouring for parts now.... hopefully that will pay off - sounds like it already has. I ordered a ZHP shift **** for my brother's M3 as an Xmas gift - a ZHP shift **** - and it took TWO MONTHS to arrive. I'm curious Jake, just from being in the industry full time, where do you see all of this going?

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+1 🙈

After seeing what Jake is going through regarding sourcing supplies and the associated cost increases in future FSI builds, I am even more grateful for what he did for me last year when I had an issue. Without going into details, Jake and his team went above & beyond what anyone else in this business would do. I believe he still suffers some slight PTSD whenever he thinks about my car, but I will forever be in his debt and will defend his character and professionalism whenever I see anyone take shots at either.

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Not in my car you won't. To me the flat six with all its noises and peculiarities is part of the charm of Porsche. I saw someone observe the other day that a good entry point into Porsche is late model Panamera. I looked at the on the web and at the dealer's. Beautiful cabin, not so pretty on the outside, and a front engine, even turbo. I see that as a good entry point for a guy with a family and who just needs to be in Porsche. I also drive a Maxima which is as fast and comfortable as I would ever need, for much less money. For guys like me, Porsche is 911 period. And 996 or earlier. I have also been looking at 997 and 991, and the latest models on the dealer's floor. It just seems to me that Porsche is headed in a direction that would not attract me, sort of a luxury sports car rather than a driver's car. I could certainly buy just about any Porsche I wanted (except for a few) but I have chosen the path of buying a cherry 996.2 and invest in her to make her what I want, although still in her "native dress" so to speak. Maybe many more guys are doing this also and that is reflected in the sales we are seeing? Thoughts?

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Proof that you've never heard an M96 growling up towards redline through a factory sport exhaust.

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Even w/o the sport exhaust the M96 has a sweet-sweet sound above 4k at full throttle! It is absolutely intoxicating. At least mine is...Thank You Jake.

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After I got the catless fabspeed x pipe, yes the sound is intoxicating, i do have the fabspeed exhaust. Can�t wait to get the soul headers on to see what happens to the symphony. I feel for Jake having a tough time, he has accomplished a lot and taught many of us so much about our cars, I have seen as many of his videos as possible, even though I have own my car for a year and a month, I know more about it that any other car I ever had. The whole pandemic thing has changed everything, inflation is rampant, my mechanic is building a 4.0 that he wants to compare to the one Jake will build for squirrel 🐿 and he says that his parts cost have increased exponentially. Two weeks ago I replaced a 3 ton 16 seer ac unit, in March i had replaced a 4 ton 16 seer unit. In March 2021 for the 4 ton I pd $3200, i quoted over 15 different companies this time, I even got prices to buy the main components myself and just quote installation. Anyway I started the process at the end of November last year, then for tax reasons I decided to wait till January. Paying cash for a smaller unit the 3 ton the best I was able to do it for was $4200. I see that parts for our engines will be the same and as Jake states there may be a bunch of junk out there.

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Unfortunately, the entire auto industry is running into the same supply chain issues described by Jake. One of the byproducts of the supply chain disruptions will be the potential for enhanced M/A activity. Been plenty of rumors regarding GM being acquired by a foreign company as a division of a much bigger company. Time and econ/market conditions will dictate what will eventually happen. Who knows, maybe VW buys GM and integrates their V8s into the equation? Crazy things happen. Who ever thought Chrysler would be owned my Mercedes and then change hands to FIAT? But history has shown us the following: ​​​​1. The quickest way to more supply in the future is lack of current supply. 2. The quickest way to lower prices in the future are higher current prices due to the effects of #1 above. The problem is always the pain and agony that is created as these conditions materialize and change. And we got a lot of supply and price pain and agony right now. But it will eventually end. Let's hope sooner than later.

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I don't see this going the way any of us want it to. I had a meeting with my "Class of 2021" last week, these are the guys who received their cars back in 2021. I gave them some serious advice about their cars, from a perspective of the entire vehicle, based on what I am seeing. Since I do test work for the distributors here in the USA (and have done training for 2 of the 3) I have been able to get the inside scoop about what is available, what is on the water, and what is awaiting entry into their inventory. All I'll say about that is I was able to import a part for an executive at one of those companies, when he wasn't able to supply it to himself with the supply system. I imported it in the back of an armored personnel carrier, adding each part to the bill of lading, which is a disaster to deal with to do it legally. Any car that I am keeping long term, and I know I'll need parts for, I already have them.. If I see a part for any of my odd cars available, I buy it, whether I need it- or not. It looks like no M9X engines will be built here in Q4 of 2023, I am dedicating all the Q4 slots to aircooled, Mezger Turbo and 9A1 engines. We'll see about 2024 in a few months.

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I can't speak for the 991 or later, but I can speak on the 997. If you are speaking driving experience and feel, it is a stretch to draw a line ending at the 996 and excluding 997. They are too similar to draw a line between the two... and my 997 was a .2 with the 9A1 engine. Even with the DFI engine, the car was still very similar to my 996. Now... if you mean the styling or more modern electronics... ok, I get you but the driving experience is not a night and day difference. If you think the 997 drives like a luxury car, then you would have to say the same about the 996. I don't particularly desire a 991 or 992, but I definitely still appreciate them. They are real 911's just like any other.

How is the Stage II 996 TODAY? ARE YOU STILL HAPPY? I am thinking about using them for my 2002 996 Carrera Tom

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I love my Stage II engine! Going on 33k miles.

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Same. Loving mine and after the suspension rebuild, it's AMAZING!

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Lovin� mine 3 1/2 yrs on�

I am in the break-in phase on mine. Even keeping it under 5000 rpm love the way it runs ,, smooth as heck, way better than before, I did a 3.8 street+ engine. (I did a couple "while your in there" upgrades.) Very happy.

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Stumptown�s back in the house!

Keep us posted, did the same upgrade on mine getting the car back on Wednesday this week, way too excited!!

The car is still in the capsule til April but I can�t wait t get back and take �er out�Around 30k on the stage II now�

Luckily we can drive year round down here since there's no snow or salt to worry about. Unfortunately, health issues have kept me from driving my Stage 2 as much as I'd like. I've just put over 11,500 on mine since it came back 3 years ago. I'm hoping to be able to put a lot more miles on it soon.

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@TexSquirrel It really sucks when your health keeps you from Driving your 996 !!! ....I had to buy a 2014 Edge 'beater" to get around in untill my legs get strong enough to get out of the 911 again....lol

Any chance anyone in AZ wants to show off their FSI? I'm still deciding if this 997 is a forever car for me or not but if it is I'm leaning towards having it done.