GT3 verse GTS - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I have been looking for a GT3 for some time now but can't seem to find the right car and am getting impatient so have been looking around for an alternative. I have never driven or been a passenger in either of the 2 cars but looking at reviews ,BHP, specifications, and performance the GTS would make sense as an alternative. Given that I really want the car for a summer weekend ride and most likely would not be track focused (May do an odd day) the GTS seems to fit the bill. The GTS has the benefit of having my must haves, sports seats and exhaust as well as other bits and bobs and looks almost equal in performance. How well regarded are these cars and residuals, there seems to be a reasonable selection of cars on offer unlike the GT3s which are few and far between. The other down side is my limited budget means I'm looking at a GEN1 and since starting to look at the end of last year the GT3s have gone up around 5-8k. Anyone tried both and moved from a GT3 to a GTS?

GTS's were a run-out gen 2 model, and holding their value very well, so sounds like they may be above you budget.

I have previously had a 996 C4S and 997 C2, then went to more exotic stuff like Astons, Ferraris and currently a McLaren. I was looking for a 'cheaper' car to go where I couldn't always take the Ferrari and Mac and would not depreciate too much with mileage. A 997 cab was on the cards (I also wanted to be able to have some open air motoring for the summer). I checked out various things but ended up with a manual GTS cab. I'm really pleased with it. The engine is wonderful - very powerful, very sonorous with the sports exhaust and the linear power delivery only a NA can give. My Mac spider is rock solid stiff, even a 430 spider I owned previously was pretty stiff, however, the GTS is not and there is more scuttle shake than I expected. Still, that may not apply to you and it only really bothers me on rough roads. Mostly the GTS is a brilliant car. The suspension is stiff (exacerbates the scuttle problem) but not harsh and there is great feel from the seat, steering and chassis. The key thing is this - I love driving it. It offers something different to the other cars I have and fully deserves the highest praise. I have never owned a GT3, which is probably something I should put right one day but in the meantime, the GTS probably suits me better and will continue to depreciate fairly slowly I reckon. Still, of I can't compare it to a GT3, I can compare it to a lot of other stuff and it is a great car.

GTS is nothing like a GT3 in any way, if you want a GT3 then a GTS will not fit the bill imo. GTS is a nice car but a cut down GT3 it is not.

Had a Gen1 and 2 C4S 997 and decided the C4s was not enough of an event, I had PSE but found it quiet and I always drove the car with sport mode on and PSE on. Still it felt too normal. Now just got a 997.2 GT3 and what a proper car it has theatre it goes well and sounds great. What I'm trying to say is the GTS will be good but it is not a GT3 and I concur with the above if you are looking for a GT3 I don't think a GTS will fit the bill..

chap coming with us to Austria just chopped his GTS in for a Gen1 and said the same thing .... worlds apart

Thanks all for the constructive comments. I guess I need to bide my time until the right GT3 comes up. My concerns with the GT3 was that it may be too track focused to enjoy on the road and the ride may be skate board hard not just stiff. Anyone selling a low mileage, low owner, GEN1 GT3? Edited by LukeS on Monday 12th May 13:15

your concerns are very justified and hence why I don't want one.

LukeS said: Thanks all for the constructive comments. I guess I need to bide my time until the right GT3 comes up. My concerns with the GT3 was that it may be too track focused to enjoy on the road and the ride may be skate board hard not just stiff. Anyone selling a low mileage, low owner, GEN1 GT3? Edited by LukeS on Monday 12th May 13:15 I thought so too. But end of the day I did not care. My new 997.2 GT3 is way more comfortable than my old 991.1 Turbo. Shocking! The buckets are just awesome. You can spend 24hrs in there no problem.

Interesting quandary you have OP....both are great cars for sure but chalk and cheese..as recently discussed at length on recent threads..... Just over two years ago I was in your situation and considered either a GT3 or GTS...and bought a GTS which, to me, and after many 911s, has proved to be almost the perfect 911. Like you, I am not interested in track, the car purely being used for weekends and spirited A and B road drives for which I would consider the GTS to be as rapid as a 458, especially in the wet. Its a 2wd and PDK sport chrono although clearly some prefer the much rarer 'manuel'.... Basically, I found the 997 GT3 too hardcore, no good as a daily driver and no quicker than the GTS (for my kind of driving and road use). Regular trips to the Lake District, Wales and Scotland would be compromised and it also had severely restricted front ground clearance (even with lift) and running costs would be a lot more than the GTS. Residually, both cars are very strong, and there has been a recent surge in GT3 prices of late due to its now 'obsolete' gearbox and 'analogue' features now lost on the 991. Good spec and mileage cars of both models sell quickly especially at OPCs.... I view my GTS as a keeper and would want to run it alongside my 991 GT3 when it arrives... :

I wanted a GT3 I bought a GT3 No other 911 appealed to me when I was looking for a replacement for my 997.1 C2S I am VERY happy with my choice Anyone who says they are uncomfortable is a girl

V8KSN said: I wanted a GT3 I bought a GT3 No other 911 appealed to me when I was looking for a replacement for my 997.1 C2S I am VERY happy with my choice Anyone who says they are uncomfortable is a girl And anyone who says the gear ratios work on UK B roads is a *********** ********** did you know a power pack C2S is also in fact quicker to 60 and 90 mph than a gen 1 gt3 due to having far far better/shorter ratios !!! A GTS would prob out pace a gen 1 GT3 on UK B roads esp a PDK one.

mrdemon said: V8KSN said: I wanted a GT3 I bought a GT3 No other 911 appealed to me when I was looking for a replacement for my 997.1 C2S I am VERY happy with my choice Anyone who says they are uncomfortable is a girl And anyone who says the gear ratios work on UK B roads is a *********** ********** did you know a power pack C2S is also in fact quicker to 60 and 90 mph than a gen 1 gt3 due to having far far better/shorter ratios !!! A GTS would prob out pace a gen 1 GT3 on UK B roads esp a PDK one. After driving both I would agree with most of this.....

mrdemon said: V8KSN said: I wanted a GT3 I bought a GT3 No other 911 appealed to me when I was looking for a replacement for my 997.1 C2S I am VERY happy with my choice Anyone who says they are uncomfortable is a girl And anyone who says the gear ratios work on UK B roads is a *********** ********** did you know a power pack C2S is also in fact quicker to 60 and 90 mph than a gen 1 gt3 due to having far far better/shorter ratios !!! A GTS would prob out pace a gen 1 GT3 on UK B roads esp a PDK one. I didnt mention anything about gear ratios I dont care which one is quicker and by how many seconds In some situations, a Clio 197 is quicker than a McLaren F1 - who cares? Why do you always have to 'kick off' on GT3 threads? Just because you cant drive there is no need to vent your fustration on every GT3 thread!

I'd say the GTS is more of a daily drive. I had one on the shopping list along with a 997turbo, 991pdk but at the end of the day I didn't need a daily just something for fun. The GT3 should also hold it value better but finding the right one is near impossible.

V8KSN said: mrdemon said: V8KSN said: I wanted a GT3 I bought a GT3 No other 911 appealed to me when I was looking for a replacement for my 997.1 C2S I am VERY happy with my choice Anyone who says they are uncomfortable is a girl And anyone who says the gear ratios work on UK B roads is a *********** ********** did you know a power pack C2S is also in fact quicker to 60 and 90 mph than a gen 1 gt3 due to having far far better/shorter ratios !!! A GTS would prob out pace a gen 1 GT3 on UK B roads esp a PDK one. I didnt mention anything about gear ratios I dont care which one is quicker and by how many seconds In some situations, a Clio 197 is quicker than a McLaren F1 - who cares? Why do you always have to 'kick off' on GT3 threads? Just because you cant drive there is no need to vent your fustration on every GT3 thread! Don't listen to Demon. Its well documented elsewhere that his taste is pansy-like in the extreme and he can't deal with a rear engined car in general, esp. one that's a little stiffer. The 97 Gt3 is a pussycat. Very polished, modern and comfy IMO. People's tastes in this matter also differe wildy so always best to try out for yourself. One man's "crashy and undriveable" is another's "too soft and VAG-like" !

mrdemon said: And anyone who says the gear ratios work on UK B roads is a *********** ********** did you know a power pack C2S is also in fact quicker to 60 and 90 mph than a gen 1 gt3 due to having far far better/shorter ratios !!! A GTS would prob out pace a gen 1 GT3 on UK B roads esp a PDK one. Biggest Facepalm Ever

AndrewO said: I'd say the GTS is more of a daily drive. I had one on the shopping list along with a 997turbo, 991pdk but at the end of the day I didn't need a daily just something for fun. The GT3 should also hold it value better but finding the right one is near impossible. Wife & Mistress.

I would tend to agree that a gts is a fancy carrera with none of the history of a gt car. It doesn't have the racing pedigree of a gt engine like a gt2,3 and turbo has but it depends on what you want. It can make a racket if you love that and it has a G and a T on the back

As regards comfort I just drove 160 miles in my GT2 last night in rain, shine, bumpy, smooth, open road and traffic. Let me count the times I was wishing for the comfort of my Jaag or the old turbo or a carerra. Ok, counting them all that's a total of zero times SM

Cough cough, rms, cough cough borescore cough cough

Cough cough, rms, cough cough borescore cough cough

As a weekend toy there's no reasonable comparison here. The GT3 is a much more special car, feedback, feel, engine, The GT3s engine is harder edged, revs 1000 rpm higher, and looks way way better IMHO The GTS by comparison is a the finest evolution of the vanilla 997. Its a fine fine thing. Its more refined, more supple better suited to being a DD for sure but that's not what you seem to want. And its not about pace across the road. Unless you want to risk losing your licence both are as fast as you would ever need. Edited by Dblue on Monday 12th May 20:50

mrdemon said: V8KSN said: I wanted a GT3 I bought a GT3 No other 911 appealed to me when I was looking for a replacement for my 997.1 C2S I am VERY happy with my choice Anyone who says they are uncomfortable is a girl And anyone who says the gear ratios work on UK B roads is a *********** ********** did you know a power pack C2S is also in fact quicker to 60 and 90 mph than a gen 1 gt3 due to having far far better/shorter ratios !!! A GTS would prob out pace a gen 1 GT3 on UK B roads esp a PDK one. Do you ever shut the f k up? Jesus, it's like Groundhog Day in this forum.

supermono said: Cough cough, rms, cough cough borescore cough cough Millions of race miles suggest the Mezger is rock solid. In every way its a special thing Edited by Dblue on Monday 12th May 21:27

mrdemon said: And anyone who says the gear ratios work on UK B roads is a *********** ********** did you know a power pack C2S is also in fact quicker to 60 and 90 mph than a gen 1 gt3 due to having far far better/shorter ratios !!! A GTS would prob out pace a gen 1 GT3 on UK B roads esp a PDK one. That is the annoying thing about the GT3 - every f king B road in the UK is exactly the same. OP, I'm very much a newcomer to Porscheland but if you want the rawness that the GT3s are famous for, I don't think you will find it in any other watercooled Porsche. I recently acquired a 997.1 GT3 and it's a beguiling mix of new-car and old-school. Whether that is appealing or not is down to the individual and I think one will swerve pretty unambiguously to either a GT3 or GTS accordingly (admittedly this is from the perspective of the car not being a daily driver). Either way, I suspect there is not a bad choice.

Seems to be an emotive subject and as some have said it's been discussed a few times on the forum but as I am relatively new to the Porsche sector ( or as the Americas would say Sec-tour) it fresh news to me. Seems to come out in favour of the GT3 but for some the car is a bit like Marmite, love it or hate it. I guess I will just have to get a test drive if ever I can find one and see for myself! Interesting comments regardless of the points of view.

supermono said: Cough cough, rms, cough cough borescore cough cough I didn't think either the Mezger or the GTS engine was known for suffering from either of them??

mrdemon said: And anyone who says the gear ratios work on UK B roads is a *********** ********** did you know a power pack C2S is also in fact quicker to 60 and 90 mph than a gen 1 gt3 due to having far far better/shorter ratios !!! A GTS would prob out pace a gen 1 GT3 on UK B roads esp a PDK one. As you don't like GT3's and clearly don't intend to buy another one do you not think it would be better for you to not post negative comments on any thread with GT3 in the title. Here's a radical idea, when you see a thread with GT3 in the title don't click it, and if you really can't help yourself for the love of god don't post the same old s t time and time again, we get it you don't like them...

pete a said: mrdemon said: And anyone who says the gear ratios work on UK B roads is a *********** ********** did you know a power pack C2S is also in fact quicker to 60 and 90 mph than a gen 1 gt3 due to having far far better/shorter ratios !!! A GTS would prob out pace a gen 1 GT3 on UK B roads esp a PDK one. As you don't like GT3's and clearly don't intend to buy another one do you not think it would be better for you to not post negative comments on any thread with GT3 in the title. Here's a radical idea, when you see a thread with GT3 in the title don't click it, and if you really can't help yourself for the love of god don't post the same old s t time and time again, we get it you don't like them... He's a Troll. And like any good Troll, he sits there under his bridge, waiting to pounce as soon as a thread about GT3s floats his way. Or sometimes any thread. It's like a kind of Tourettes; he just can't help but blurt out the same regurgitated s te. At first it promoted healthy debate, then it became boring, and now... well he just needs to be denied access to the forum. Like a dog with behavioral issues, you lock it outside when guests are round. Christ, imagine meeting this guy in the pub?! You'd want to glass yourself. "Oh, so you're on PH?" "What's your log-in name?" " Mr Demon " >smash<

pete a said: mrdemon said: The usual .... Here's a radical idea, when you see a thread with GT3 in the title don't click it, and if you really can't help yourself for the love of god don't post the same old s t time and time again, we get it you don't like them... It's a nice idea pete but it will never happen. MrDemon is a funda-mentalist and he has launched a holy-war against the GT3! NO THREAD IS SAFE!!!!

Dear OP, I have a Gen 1 997 GT3, previously had a 996C4S and have driven a 997C4S PDK - although not a GTS which in reviews was claimed to be very good. I went for the GT3 because I intended to use it for a mixture of sunday blasts (yes on B roads), European road trips and track days - so for me it was more of a special occasion car but it was important to me that it could perform on track - and the GT3 does that very well. The GT3 is not as good at just cruising around - the engine note at normal road speeds is in my view not as good as the normal 911's with a sports exhaust, the clutch is quite heavy, the ride is pretty firm and the nose hits the ground even when I dont expect it! I had a 997C4S PDK loan car when mine was having a service and what struck me was that it had a much wider operating window - it could cruise comfortably, had a nicer interior (probably just the spec), and the PDK box was really good, smooth and responsive, and then when ragged it could deliver perhaps 90% of what the GT3 can do, however, that last 10% on a b-road blast or track day is what really makes the difference. Personally I think the GT3s look better due to the lower ride height - a normal 911 with the aero kit just doesnt look the same. As is always the case you should try and test drive both and see which you prefer. I chose to replace my C4S with a GT3 and I love it, but, I use it less than I did the C4S. If your head gets involved in making the decision then another consideration is residuals (let the trolling being!). It appears as through over the long term the GT3's hold their value better than non-GT3 911s. However, the GTS does also seem to be holding value well - need a crystal ball to see if that will continue.

MrTickle said: supermono said: Cough cough, rms, cough cough borescore cough cough I didn't think either the Mezger or the GTS engine was known for suffering from either of them?? GT3s suffer RMS weaping. Not a horrific problem but fix is expensive. Never heard of bore scoring on a Mezger.

Was in exactly the same situation as you. I test drove a GT3 prior to a test drive in a GTS. Have to say, the GT3 felt special before I'd even started it up. Was very impressed with the drive and was a very tough decision between that and the GTS. I went for the GTS in the end as it suited my needs better than a GT3. I'm not planning on tracking (perhaps one a year) so the majority of the time, the car is used on the road. I felt the GTS was better suited to this kind of driving, although that's not to say the GT3 would struggle, it clearly wouldn't. If I'm completely honest, the GT3 was just a bit 'too much' for me and what I would use a car for. If I had a workhorse to nip to the shops in and was lucky enough to have the cash for a weekend fun toy, GT3 would be in my garage. As it is, although my GTS isn't a daily driver, I do use it more than just a weekend toy. Tough call, but whatever you end up with you'll be happy.

You GT3 owners are so defensive it's amusing :-) you can give it, but seems cannot take it and then start name calling like 10 year olds. My views are backed up by many a past GT3 owner, the hype on this forum for the GT3 needs a balance. My post was in reply to "Anyone who says they are uncomfortable is a girl " which I can take, but you guys cannot its seems if i make a responce. I'll post what I think if people ask what to buy GT3 vs GTS, as my views on the subject are very valid and as I say backed up by many a past GT3 owner. It's about helping people make a choice or telling people what the issues can be, it's not about a few lads who hype the GT3 and then get upset. If you notice I don't post that much on GT3 threads at all these days, I say the same about the 981 manual and those issue with lacklustre steering and again those stuipd gear ratio's really forcing PDK upon any owner who dares to buy one. People buy blind without know about the issue then it's an expensive mistake. Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 13th May 11:49

Sorry, did someone say something?

This is a good thread and a reasonable question from the OP. Please keep it on topic. So many threads on PH end up in personal arguements and in my view it ruins it. I expect the OP realises he has to drive both and make a personal choice but put the post on here to seek positives and negatives on both models based on owners experiences.

As F40 summed up rather well - I have a Gen 2 GT3 and had a GTS albeit 4S - 4 years on the GT3 feels as special as the day I got it and irrespective ( or perhaps because )of the clutch ( I am not a girl ) , the slight impracticality of the rear cage , my wife moaning about getting in and out of the buckets I have yet to see or drive anything I want to replace it with as a toy. The GTS4 was excellent as a daily driver but in pure actual driving comparison boring and I certainly never felt special in it - as a car excellent though.

As F40 summed up rather well - I have a Gen 2 GT3 and had a GTS albeit 4S - 4 years on the GT3 feels as special as the day I got it and irrespective ( or perhaps because )of the clutch ( I am not a girl ) , the slight impracticality of the rear cage , my wife moaning about getting in and out of the buckets I have yet to see or drive anything I want to replace it with as a toy. The GTS4 was excellent as a daily driver but in pure actual driving comparison boring and I certainly never felt special in it - as a car excellent though.

alscar said: As F40 summed up rather well - I have a Gen 2 GT3 and had a GTS albeit 4S - 4 years on the GT3 feels as special as the day I got it and irrespective ( or perhaps because )of the clutch ( I am not a girl ) , the slight impracticality of the rear cage , my wife moaning about getting in and out of the buckets I have yet to see or drive anything I want to replace it with as a toy. The GTS4 was excellent as a daily driver but in pure actual driving comparison boring and I certainly never felt special in it - as a car excellent though. As is the case with most 911s, the GTS 2wd is much more fun and driver focused than the 4wd perhaps at the expense of slightly more safety but too much predictability....the perfect balance and neutrality of the hydraulic steering on the 2 is lost on the 4.....4 also suffers more transmission noise, is heavier, 'slower', less storage and heavier on fuel....

MrTickle said: I didn't think either the Mezger or the GTS engine was known for suffering from either of them?? Isn't the GTS just a fancy carrera with all the same engine issues any other carrera has? Oh sure not every carrera has the problems so statistically the low volume GTS won't be specifically affected but it has the same probability.

supermono said: MrTickle said: I didn't think either the Mezger or the GTS engine was known for suffering from either of them?? Isn't the GTS just a fancy carrera with all the same engine issues any other carrera has? Oh sure not every carrera has the problems so statistically the low volume GTS won't be specifically affected but it has the same probability. In a word: no.

GTS is a gen 2 997 and has the direct injection engine that has had as far as I know none of the IMS and bore scoring issues of the earlier vanilla 6's Mezger RMS issue is entirely different

My mistake. I apologise I genuinely thought the GTS engine was identical to the earlier ones, I retract the slur on that engine. Mind you it's still no gt2/3...

andyc11 said: Was in exactly the same situation as you. I test drove a GT3 prior to a test drive in a GTS. Have to say, the GT3 felt special before I'd even started it up. Was very impressed with the drive and was a very tough decision between that and the GTS. I went for the GTS in the end as it suited my needs better than a GT3. I'm not planning on tracking (perhaps one a year) so the majority of the time, the car is used on the road. I felt the GTS was better suited to this kind of driving, although that's not to say the GT3 would struggle, it clearly wouldn't. If I'm completely honest, the GT3 was just a bit 'too much' for me and what I would use a car for. If I had a workhorse to nip to the shops in and was lucky enough to have the cash for a weekend fun toy, GT3 would be in my garage. As it is, although my GTS isn't a daily driver, I do use it more than just a weekend toy. Tough call, but whatever you end up with you'll be happy. Probably did the right thing. Had a 997.1 GT3 CS which was a stunning car, but for me personally only felt special when booting it. At this point, on British roads you are heading for a jail sentence. If as stated by the OP he's going to only use it on the road, I reckon the GTS would be the right choice. Just my 2p Dave

Similar quandry. Heart says GT3, but I would want a Gen2 and I have been led to believe that you cannot retro fit the rear seats which I will need. Therefore manual GTS for me, 2wd please. Oh, whats that? theres a riviera blue one back on the market?

Obiwonkeyblokey said: Oh, whats that? theres a riviera blue one back on the market? I saw that as well, it looks fabulous doesn't it, get it bought...

Had 996 GT3/GT3 Mk2/GT3 RS Got 997 Turbo Buying Carrera GTS (instead of 997T) Seems to strike the right balance for my needs - i.e a bit special, N/A engine and RWD. Not interested in tracking it, probably use as a DD and definitely expect to enjoy a brisk drive. The Riviera Blue car on the OPC network was very tempting..

Went to look at it Sunday through window (100 mile drive) as I couldn't make Saturday due to family commitments, looks even better in the flesh. From what I could see looked mint extremely well detailed, was undecided whether to take it further as feel I would rather a Gt3. Also had possibility of Gt3 if a deal that was going on fell apart, that hasn't happed. Interesting thing was Gt3 had been on PH for 58k then was being sold through Porsche for 69k, kind off wish I had gone to view it when private seller had it. Was put off when I spoke to a guy that was selling on behalf of his boss and was vague on all my questions. Had not had over rev check and had been tracked which I know you kind off have to expect, there were more reason not to bother going to see it but too much to post here. The GTS has had 3 or 4 owners and is top money but good speck depending if you wanted PDK or manual, had it been 1 or maybe 2 owners may have been a bit more interested if around 62k. Sure it won't hang about to long. Edited by LukeS on Thursday 15th May 07:20

Just collected my GTS. It's no GT3, and it's no Turbo. It is however a nice, light feeling 911 with a raspy exhaust and build quality that's beyond the 56 plate Turbo it's replaced. Plus points for me are the bucket seats, which I have an insatiable fetish for, the short shift gear change and the somewhat exotic centre lock wheels. Performance is OK, noise of engine no match for a GT3, PCM3 a welcome feature. Miss the party trick Turbo thrust, the rattly Metzer engine for GT3/Turbo and the leather sun visors on the Turbo. Otherwise I'm thinking I might well bond with the GTS, and may utter the phrase "it's a keeper". But then again given previous form maybe not.

GT3 vs. GTS has been debated many times before. I've always wanted a GT3 but like to buy new and have been deterred by the long waiting lists - or maybe I just don't act quickly enough. I ended up buying a manual GTS 2WD in October 2011 - one of the last produced - and got a good discount because it was in the showroom and the OPC wanted to shift 997's to make way for the new 991. It's the best 911 I've owned and I don't expect to sell it any time soon. It sounds good and the manual shift (mine has the short shift fitted) is excellent. Personally, I prefer the wide body and no extra wings, although I do admit the GT3 looks pretty good. Still think Porsche need to improve on some of the simple things, like a radio that automatically switches itself on every time you put the key in the ignition, and central locking that doesn't automatically unlock when you switch the ignition off! Does my car have a software glitch, or is this normal?