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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHBrake failure at track! Optimal brake setup?
Leading reported evidence
Check resevoir right away and fluid seemed fine
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
No brake light nor fluid loss, I checked the resevoir right away and fluid seemed fine.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Replaced all other air flow components to front arches
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Suggestion
You might also want to have a look at the calipers and pistons and check they're not binding, as a 996 is getting on in age by now.
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Suggestion
And remember to change your brake fluid every 2 years.
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911uk: 1 discussions
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Hi all,
So I just went to my second track day, all parameters same except, I pushed the car harder, had a passenger 100kg, braked later and at the last corner of lap 4 (Slovakiaring, 5.9km), I noticed extensive brake fade in the pedal (e.g. pressed 60% no reaction) but it braked sufficiently. So then I decided to have a cooldown lap. Luckily instead of reaching 130mph on the straight, I kept it at 70mph and at the first corner brakes were 95% gone.
This was quite the "OH S***!"
moment, luckily the speed was low so I managed to get safely off the track.
So as I just started tracking the 996, in terms of braking I was always leaving 20-30% on the table as a reserve. So I did some research as for the next steps of the braking system, I would like your opinion;
- EBC stainless steel brake lines
- Brembo OEM rotors (replace old)
- EBC yellow stuff
- ATE type 200 brake fluid (2year interval)
Any thoughts / comments on the proposed setup?
Car would be used in mixed street use with 4-5 track days per year. Thanks!
No brake light nor fluid loss, I checked the resevoir right away and fluid seemed fine. Simply pedal went to the floor without resistance. Drove it yesterday and back to normal-ish. Thansk!
Did the pedal go to the floor? On my turbo the brakes started to fade because the pad material was getting too hot, so needed different material or better cooling. GT3 ducts are a no brainer at about a fiver a pair.
MC
I'd start with a brake fluid flush, stock will do, then add the GT3 ducts, new discs, stainless steel lines and fresh pads - but I'd probably choose a different manufacturer, as I've seen some issues with EBC pads. You might also want to have a look at the calipers and pistons and check they're not binding, as a 996 is getting on in age by now. And remember to change your brake fluid every 2 years.
Yup, firstly there was only limited resistance on one turn and then the next pedal went to the floor and I felt max 3-5% braking based on speedo. (was quite lucky)
Pedal going to the floor is not brake fade. Sounds like something leaked fluid out under high pressure. If it did it once you wouldn't notice on the reservoir level.
If the fluid is old and has a low boiling point then the fluid will boil and when the pedal is pressed you will just be compressing the gases, not the fluid. This will cause a long pedal. If it is a leak then it will obviously continue when the brakes have cooled down.
Pedal to the floor only when very hot. Boiling fluid
No brakes but firm pedal. Pads overheating, fluid OK
Pedal to the floor when hot and when cold. Fluid leak.
MC
Well, after doing all the usual before a TD in April...
Braided hoses
Racing Fluid
Ferodo DS2500 racing pads
OEM discs all round
GT3 Cooling ducts
Replaced all other air flow components to front arches
I can say, the standard discs are not up to the job of giving the car a real spanking all day long. Yes my friend and I were too eager to make hay and didn't cool her down enough, but we came away thinking we need uprated discs. Amazingly the set-up took it, the braking remained decent and reliable the whole time, but we hammered through half the front pads in a single day and the new discs were in a sorry state.
My due diligence after led me here:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/boxster-cayman/128218-brake-information-dump.html
https://www.essexparts.com/support/learning-center--faq
https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog/do-i-need-brake-ducts-on-my-track-car
http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-racing-forum/31437-track-brakes.html
https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod...3--Front-SLOTTED-Brake-Discs-for-Porsche_3_2/
Forgive the random nature of the links, these are the links I left live on my phone since doing the homework. The EssexParts webpages have some very interesting stuff which is all worth a read if you're a noob to pushing the car hard on TDs.
My mate and I both agreed that that was the hardest we'd ever driven any of our cars on a TD. And we both realise now we didn't let her cool down enough during the day. That said, 'drilled' discs are not the way to go on a TD would be a major take home.
We've had some patchy experience with EBC pads, basically crumbling and falling apart, and we now stay away. I ran some Bluestuff foe example which cracked.
I run Pagid RS29s in the 997 at the moment, and they're very good. Great feel, and have lasted really well. I run Carbotech in the other car, pretty expensive and pretty hard on the discs, but they last a very long time.
I'm just thinking it might be time for a brake overhaul; the pistons should still move freely once you take the pads out and - very gently - have a friend add some pressure via the brake pedal, just enough to get them moving. Or you can try to pull them out with your finger. Not very scientific but you'll soon see if a piston isn't emerging... or if it feels like its scraping due to corrosion.
Excellent read many thanks!
- would you know which GT3 ducts to use? There are alternative i.e. from 997 or 996?
- which rotors would you recommend? I det the point with drilled, however I assumed OEM was drilled.
Thanks!
