RS 4.0 - road tax - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

No wonder we never see cars on the road. Just got my road tax through for this year and its 500 for the 4.0 Before anyone retorts with 'well its nothing compared to the value' or whatever, it isn't the point. For me its more of an annoyance and I worry that it will just keep going up and up, which it will. We pay enough tax as it is in this country, well all of us accept Gary Barlow. This is just another indirect stealth tax that's gathering pace year on year. There is enough bloody tax wrapped up in fuel duty......... Before too long it will be SORN and track days only. That and a bit of local road with no tax. Tax doesn't have to be taxing.

It's no more than a 2006 M3 worth about £8-10K. Seems good value for a car 25x the price ?? Southern Ireland's road tax is eye watering.

Sell it and get a Toyota IQ. Save yourself a fortune.

I dont get threads like this. Its a bit like moaning that Coutts keep putting your banking charges up because you have over 10million in the bank. I tell you what... ill look after your 4.0 for you and pay your road tax for you. You can come and pick it up and use it at weekends, FREE road tax for you. How does that sound? ;-)

Just renewed my GT2 tax at £490 - 530bhp going through 325 width Michelins probably puts a fair bit more stress on the tarmac than the average Toyota so I don't mind paying a bit more It's a shame that there's not a 'scheme' for road tax, Barlow's advisors might know of something

996GT2 said: ...530bhp going through 325 width Michelins probably puts a fair bit more stress on the tarmac than the average Toyota so I don't mind paying a bit more

It should be on fuel, that we it doesn't matter how "green" your car is you pay relative to how much tarmac you use. It also means that it is impossible to avoid road tax and you don't have to worry about sorbing etc. This will never happen though as it only works out at a couple of pence per litre, and so it wouldn't discourage anyone from burning fuel. When the government stops worrying about what a bunch greenies worry about and actually thinks about it, it will realise that it is eminently sensible.

OP in 'having nice things costs more than normal things' shocker. Buy a car pre 2006 or suck it up, buttercup

I don't accept Gary Barlow

Don't get me started on the cost of landing fees for my private jet....... I feel better now about it. Maybe I will send in 600 quid and do my bit for the environment. For the more dense among you, the point was really that as car enthusiasts we don't want to pay more and more annually in taxes such as this, as otherwise we never get to see the cars. More will end up SORN. But if that is cool then I must have missed something.

996GT2 said: Just renewed my GT2 tax at £490 - 530bhp going through 325 width Michelins probably puts a fair bit more stress on the tarmac than the average Toyota so I don't mind paying a bit more If your GT2 tax was actually used for the roads, then your point would be valid...

pistolp said: No wonder we never see cars on the road. Just got my road tax through for this year and its 500 for the 4.0 Before anyone retorts with 'well its nothing compared to the value' or whatever, it isn't the point. For me its more of an annoyance and I worry that it will just keep going up and up, which it will. We pay enough tax as it is in this country, well all of us accept Gary Barlow. This is just another indirect stealth tax that's gathering pace year on year. There is enough bloody tax wrapped up in fuel duty......... Before too long it will be SORN and track days only. That and a bit of local road with no tax. Tax doesn't have to be taxing. Land Rover Defender 110. Carries a metric tonne in the back, is run trhough my company and is classed as commercial. Yet I pay £500.00 a year to tax it. It aint a RS4. I agree though, daylight robbery.

Also the more they put up these costs then the more people will SORN and they will take less revenue, so other taxes will have to go up. Yet another example of higher taxes actually making less revenue/sense. I know a lot of people SORN their cars to keep costs down, high road tax isn't in itself an insurmountable cost but it can be in principle. Some people just don't feel its warranted. It is especially the case with people who buy cars as investments. No wonder we never see those. Edited by pistolp on Thursday 15th May 12:26

Also the more they put up these costs then the more people will SORN and they will take less revenue, so other taxes will have to go up. Yet another example of higher taxes actually making less revenue/sense. I know a lot of people SORN their cars to keep costs down, high road tax isn't in itself an insurmountable cost but it can be in principle. Some people just don't feel its warranted and it is a discretionary tax. It is especially the case with people who buy cars as investments, why on earth would they pay it and then that is sad as we never see the cars. Edited by pistolp on Thursday 15th May 12:27

pistolp said: Before too long it will be SORN and track days only. That and a bit of local road with no tax. Tax doesn't have to be taxing. There's no such thing as road tax Simply wait until Oct and you'll be able to buy VED by the month.

Comrade, the £500 on your car also subsidises small cars paying £100 per year or even nothing. Viva socialism, tax the rich!

paying £500 on a 4.0 isn't irritating, it's paying £500 on a subaru or some cheaper performance car worth like £2,500 which is really disheartening

I agree, its more of a shame for an E46 M3 or similar!

First year road tax for the 4.0 if it was being registered now is £1000!

WCZ said: paying £500 on a 4.0 isn't irritating, it's paying £500 on a subaru or some cheaper performance car worth like £2,500 which is really disheartening This.

pistolp said: Also the more they put up these costs then the more people will SORN and they will take less revenue, so other taxes will have to go up. Yet another example of higher taxes actually making less revenue/sense. I know a lot of people SORN their cars to keep costs down, high road tax isn't in itself an insurmountable cost but it can be in principle. Some people just don't feel its warranted and it is a discretionary tax. It is especially the case with people who buy cars as investments, why on earth would they pay it and then that is sad as we never see the cars. £50 a month or so is hefty, if you do not use the car much, so temptation to SORN it as long s possible is huge. And the public get to see these valuable cars even less frequently (so many are investments only so not on the road) Really sensible to put the tax on fuel - win-win.

Mermaid said: Really sensible to put the tax on fuel - win-win. Which means it'll never happen I'm afraid to say.

I pay £225 for my 997 GT3, that's about right to me. My 7 series is more, but then does many more miles so again makes sense. £500 is steep, and I feel it should be incorporated into fuel cost also. Pay and play.

isaldiri said: Mermaid said: Really sensible to put the tax on fuel - win-win. Which means it'll never happen I'm afraid to say. If we all canvassed our MP?

If one adds 5p per litre to cover for current roadtax the math (for the HMRC) doesn't add up even for a high mileage user - 5p x 80 litres per week x 52 weeks = £208 per year. so say 10p per litre, political suicide to some of the electorate, and still the HMRC would be seriously out of pocket from those with more than one car per household. at the end of the day the current system may appear complicated, and unfair, but it nets much more money for the HMRC so it won't be changed ! and thats before we start to consider how a change in the current system would impact on business users (haulage, reps, taxi's, couriers, police, etc etc).

When monthly tax comes in in October this year it'll make it more palatable when they put the high rate up above £500pa (in the same way that going from fuel price increases in pence/gallon to pence/litre did - 2.2p/litre doesn't sound as bad as 10p/gallon does it?). I don't know for sure how the tax will work but I think it'll still mean committing to 6 or 12 months and then paying for it at whatever monthly rate - otherwise occasional users would SORN their cars and when there's a sunny day tax them for a month, which doesn't bring as much revenue. What I do know is that road tax will no longer stay with the car when you sell it/trade it in. I presume it will automatically be cashed in, but it's unclear whether that's only from the end of the month or if they will take payment twice (i.e. refund seller immediately but only for unused months and charge buyer from start of current month).

The only good news may be in Oct when it goes to monthly and no disc needs to be displayed. I find with the Motorbike 6mths is not always enough, if its a nice March the tax runs out end of August. With a collection it might work to tax each one for a month at a time. Probably have to agree to 6mths and then cancel but it means not having to put £500 on each for 12mth.

Also don't forget they are charging interest on the monthly installment route.....

Well, you don't know how good you have it over there. It costs for you're 4lt's of rwd goodness. We pay that () for a 1.8 petrol car here in Ireland.

Payment is by direct debit, plus 5% if not paid in full for the year.

N24 said: Payment is by direct debit, plus 5% if not paid in full for the year. "The Government has also revealed that motorists will be able to pay by direct debit annually, six-monthly or monthly. Those that pay by instalments will incur a five percent surcharge and payments will continue until cancelled. However, there will be some people that cannot pay in this manner such as those with first registration vehicles, in fleet schemes and with HGVs (paying the Road User Levy). And there will be more changes. Motorists that sell cars privately will no longer be entitled to offer the "unexpired tax" incentive that adds value. Why? Because the absence of discs could make it easier for sellers to misrepresent how much tax is remaining. So, sellers will have to claim refunds for remaining months from the DVLA. Buyers will then re-tax online, at post offices, or via the phone before taking to the road."

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] http://thumbsnap.com/sc/7GxeYTr2.jpg

I only wish the road tax revenue went towards making good smooth roads and removing all these so called traffic calming lumps.

Only £285 pa for 1 years road tax on my 996 turbo x50!

davidlaurel said: I only wish the road tax revenue went towards making good smooth roads and removing all these so called traffic calming lumps. I think is the main reason many folk get upset about road tax, the zillions collected doesn't all go back into making the roads half decent. Incidentally, I've just renewed my RS4 Avant road tax today; £275........FOR 6 MONTHS!

pistolp said: No wonder we never see cars on the road. Just got my road tax through for this year and its 500 for the 4.0 Before anyone retorts with 'well its nothing compared to the value' or whatever, it isn't the point. For me its more of an annoyance and I worry that it will just keep going up and up, which it will. We pay enough tax as it is in this country, well all of us accept Gary Barlow. This is just another indirect stealth tax that's gathering pace year on year. There is enough bloody tax wrapped up in fuel duty......... Before too long it will be SORN and track days only. That and a bit of local road with no tax. Tax doesn't have to be taxing. Just because you can afford a 4.0RS and therefore are obviously a man of means doesn't disqualify you from commenting on the governments road tax policy. But surely you must see that its hard for us peasants to empathise!

IainRS said: davidlaurel said: I only wish the road tax revenue went towards making good smooth roads and removing all these so called traffic calming lumps. I think is the main reason many folk get upset about road tax, the zillions collected doesn't all go back into making the roads half decent. Incidentally, I've just renewed my RS4 Avant road tax today; £275........FOR 6 MONTHS! >taptaptap< is this thing working? Or maybe the main reason is that none of it goes to the roads, it goes to the Exchequer's central pot. Road. Tax. Doesn't. Exist.

Speaking of road tax why in the UK do we not charge continental HGV`s at the port or tunnel for using our road system. We even have customs and Excise officers on site who could collect the tax. Probably a bit too simplistic but you understand my drift. Edited by Redarress on Thursday 15th May 21:52

Redarress said: Speaking of road tax why in the UK do we not charge continental HGV`s at the port or tunnel for using our road system. We even have customs and Excise officers on site who could be collect the tax. Probably a bit too simplistic but you understand my drift. Check their mileage coming in, and mileage when they leave - work out a rate per kilometre. Simples. But expect retaliation.

I agree with the OP. Its the principle of it that i find so annoying. If they spent the money catching the ones avoiding it that might be different. SORN is such a blooming hassle. And now we have the privilege of paying monthly by dd at only a reasonable 5% surcharge even though moving to the electronic no disc system will save .gov a fortune..

Redarress said: Speaking of road tax why in the UK do we not charge continental HGV`s at the port or tunnel for using our road system. We even have customs and Excise officers on site who could collect the tax. Probably a bit too simplistic but you understand my drift. Edited by Redarress on Thursday 15th May 21:52 There is, its been in since April 1st this yr, not a patch on truck rates for Germany & Austria & soon France on the n roads, or the very very expensive Swiss scheme, but is approx the same as the benilux https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-truck-f...

Mermaid said: Check their mileage coming in, and mileage when they leave - work out a rate per kilometre. Simples. But expect retaliation. Thats the Swiss way.

I just don't know why you started this. My lowly 3.8CS has the same tax and same issue, but frankly when you look at what some people are stung for in APac we will only ever get the worlds smallest violin on the subject (Aus, Sng and a myriad of other countries are using phrases starting with an f at us right now). My view is to take the hit and to ensure that I get my moneys worth every time I stamp on the loud pedal - road, track or whatever. Being fleeced for our source of endorphins is just one more thing that must be accepted when you buy something as intoxicating as a GT3. Anyone who SORNs a 4 litre due to the cost of the tax owns the wrong car. Nobody likes paying tax: but that is life, and for a car that drinks over £200 per day in fuel, over £100 in brakes, over £100 in tyres and roughly £70 in wheels hubs and bearings for every _DAY_ that it is used properly for the purpose for which it was intended... "...and the horse that you rode in on" Your point is weak. Sorry, but it is either that or "Worst I've got a 4 litre and you haven't thread ever".

Well as always posts on PH divide opinion. I don't need sympathy. Life is good thanks. But I was more amazed at the time at how these costs have escalated and more pertinently concerned by how they are likely to continue to do so at an alarminf rate. Frankly road tax would need to be 10 times what it is before I considered not taxing it, probably even 20 times. That's one of the reasons I've cut down to 4 cars, so that no matter what the government does I'll still be able to afford to keep my cars on the road without it impacting life in other areas. So for now the 4.0, 997.1 RS, 996 RS and Cayman will be taxed and used as intended until the Green Party get in. So no need to twang the strings on your minuscule violin for me..... But fear not, I'm sure I'll still continue to post things that many of you will be very frustrated by. So until next time.....I'm off for a drive in that 4.0, I need to try and get some value for money after all.

pistolp said: Well as always posts on PH divide opinion. I don't need sympathy. Life is good thanks. But I was more amazed at the time at how these costs have escalated and more pertinently concerned by how they are likely to continue to do so at an alarminf rate. Frankly road tax would need to be 10 times what it is before I considered not taxing it, probably even 20 times. That's one of the reasons I've cut down to 4 cars, so that no matter what the government does I'll still be able to afford to keep my cars on the road without it impacting life in other areas. So for now the 4.0, 997.1 RS, 996 RS and Cayman will be taxed and used as intended until the Green Party get in. So no need to twang the strings on your minuscule violin for me..... But fear not, I'm sure I'll still continue to post things that many of you will be very frustrated by. So until next time.....I'm off for a drive in that 4.0, I need to try and get some value for money after all. That you do - well done chap The footnote to the escalating running costs remains the wheel hubs though. Since launch, nothing has increased the ownership costs of a tracked GT3 with centre locks anything like as much as the retrospective application of a hopelessly short lifespan to expensive to replace components 3 years after the car was made. We are all swallowing that, so the creeping doom of fuel tax and the price of a few pints on the VED every year really is pretty inconsequential. The last word though is that if you want to minimise your contributions to the tax man : the 996.1 GT3 costs £230 to tax and the 996.2 GT3 and RS are £285 thanks to their year of manufacture, making those the ones to get into

Whilst on the subject of 4.0 RS's, JZM have 3 in their showroom right now. A couple may have sold already.

pistolp said: Well as always posts on PH divide opinion. I don't need sympathy. Life is good thanks. But I was more amazed at the time at how these costs have escalated and more pertinently concerned by how they are likely to continue to do so at an alarminf rate. Frankly road tax would need to be 10 times what it is before I considered not taxing it, probably even 20 times. That's one of the reasons I've cut down to 4 cars, so that no matter what the government does I'll still be able to afford to keep my cars on the road without it impacting life in other areas. So for now the 4.0, 997.1 RS, 996 RS and Cayman will be taxed and used as intended until the Green Party get in. So no need to twang the strings on your minuscule violin for me..... But fear not, I'm sure I'll still continue to post things that many of you will be very frustrated by. So until next time.....I'm off for a drive in that 4.0, I need to try and get some value for money after all. I have the answer. You have my '73 911S and I'll have your 4.0 ... next year the 911S will be zero rated for road tax and I'll pay your road tax ... There are always winners and losers in every "fair" system. The fact is that the Gov'nor wants us to drive more economical cars. Of course, the UK could seek to mirror Singapore ... ... maybe not

I agree because you can afford a nice car you should still be able to comment in the frankly ridiculous system of taxing. I did 3k miles in my 997 turbo last year and yet my tax was £495. I think this is where his frustrations come from. I had to tax my car for about 4 days just before I went back to sea and then SORN'd it right away, from the £275 I paid I only got back £200. So they charged me £75 for less than a week!

Expensive sports cars prove expensive to run shock! Seriously guys?

Helicopter123 said: Expensive sports cars prove expensive to run shock! Seriously guys? An arbitrary, unjustifiable tax is hardly a valid 'running cost'. But as long as there are millions of muppets who think it's OK, as evidenced, and even more who think "well, if it wasn't that, tax would have to go up somewhere else" Government will get away with it. What is it? "You can fool some of the people all of the time"? Never a truer word written.

S1MMA said: I pay £225 for my 997 GT3, that's about right to me. My 7 series is more, but then does many more miles so again makes sense. £500 is steep, and I feel it should be incorporated into fuel cost also. Pay and play. A 2007 GT3 is £225? My 2007 997S is £475.

it went up on 23rd? March 2006 to the higher rates

REALIST123 said: An arbitrary, unjustifiable tax is hardly a valid 'running cost'. But as long as there are millions of muppets who think it's OK, as evidenced, and even more who think "well, if it wasn't that, tax would have to go up somewhere else" Government will get away with it. What is it? "You can fool some of the people all of the time"? Never a truer word written. Hallelujah!

I know!! Why don't we let the government mandate installation of trackers in everyone's cars and then charge us per mile driven. Edited by jackwood on Sunday 18th May 11:46

pistolp said: Well as always posts on PH divide opinion. I don't need sympathy. Life is good thanks. Really ? Hope life continues to treat you well. Please do tell us if not. I'm sure you will be as keen to tell us about any change in circumstances on the down as well as the up. Thanks

REALIST123 said: Helicopter123 said: Expensive sports cars prove expensive to run shock! Seriously guys? An arbitrary, unjustifiable tax is hardly a valid 'running cost'. But as long as there are millions of muppets who think it's OK, as evidenced, and even more who think "well, if it wasn't that, tax would have to go up somewhere else" Government will get away with it. What is it? "You can fool some of the people all of the time"? Never a truer word written. true as a true thing. This is before we get into the whole notion of an emissions based tax...If i drive my high "polluting"(305g/km) car 3k miles a year I pay £500 and put out 1483kg of CO2. If I drive a 1.6 diesel mk7 golf (85g/km) 20,000 miles I would pay £nothing and put out 2720kg of CO2. Assuming i have done my maths right you would think that getting the Golf diesel driver to drive 25% less miles would have a more significant effect on the UK's total CO2 emissions than disproportionate taxation. A mileage based (fuel use) tax would make more sense. But it depends on the objective of the tax, to reduce emissions or to raise money.. it seems to me, if something can be measured then sooner or later we will get taxed on it so .gov can balance the books.

Isysman said: I had to tax my car for about 4 days just before I went back to sea and then SORN'd it right away, from the £275 I paid I only got back £200. So they charged me £75 for less than a week! Ah, but you paid a premium for only buying 6 months tax - had you paid for a year and got a refund of 11 months it would have cost you about half of that.

Fish said: it went up on 23rd? March 2006 to the higher rates It would appear that S1MMA has a 2007 GT3, which, from my research, carries a £500 per year tax. I stand to be corrected.

REALIST123 said: An arbitrary, unjustifiable tax is hardly a valid 'running cost'. But as long as there are millions of muppets who think it's OK, as evidenced, and even more who think "well, if it wasn't that, tax would have to go up somewhere else" Government will get away with it. What is it? "You can fool some of the people all of the time"? Never a truer word written. The government add this tax to try to stop people owning and driving these cars, so simply not buying the car and buying a Prius is not going to make the government change their tune. That's what they want. Prestige car companies are trying to sort this by reducing the emissions. New Porsches will have a much better tax band etc. Unfortunately for us with older cars we have no other choice if we want these cars.

Isysman said: REALIST123 said: An arbitrary, unjustifiable tax is hardly a valid 'running cost'. But as long as there are millions of muppets who think it's OK, as evidenced, and even more who think "well, if it wasn't that, tax would have to go up somewhere else" Government will get away with it. What is it? "You can fool some of the people all of the time"? Never a truer word written. The government add this tax to try to stop people owning and driving these cars, so simply not buying the car and buying a Prius is not going to make the government change their tune. That's what they want. Prestige car companies are trying to sort this by reducing the emissions. New Porsches will have a much better tax band etc. Unfortunately for us with older cars we have no other choice if we want these cars. No, no, no! Don't fall for it! The government don't give a f k what anyone drives, they just take advantage of any opportunity to impose a tax, given any excuse. Doesn't matter a jot what we drive, or what mileage we achieve. All that matters is how much fuel we use, so the only rational way is to tax the fuel. They won't do that, just like they won't simplify our Income Tax system, or any other area of taxation for that matter, because simplifying removes the opportunity for stealthily increasing taxes. Yes, manufacturers will build more economical cars, in order to compete for sales, because that will always be a factor, but eventually, Government will increase the taxes on them, at the first opportunity, because they have a misplaced belief that they need an ever increasing tax take, to piss against the wall justifying their own existence. Please stop falling for it.

One tax, say 30%, same for all, put the money in peoples pockets and let them spend it. More spending, better economy, more jobs, higher wages, more tax paid. Whats not to like

REALIST123 said: No, no, no! Don't fall for it! The government don't give a f k what anyone drives, they just take advantage of any opportunity to impose a tax, given any excuse. Doesn't matter a jot what we drive, or what mileage we achieve. All that matters is how much fuel we use, so the only rational way is to tax the fuel. They won't do that, just like they won't simplify our Income Tax system, or any other area of taxation for that matter, because simplifying removes the opportunity for stealthily increasing taxes. Yes, manufacturers will build more economical cars, in order to compete for sales, because that will always be a factor, but eventually, Government will increase the taxes on them, at the first opportunity, because they have a misplaced belief that they need an ever increasing tax take, to piss against the wall justifying their own existence. Please stop falling for it. absolutely spot on

anonymous said: [redacted] We have a wilfully ignorant electorate that takes pride in not understanding a thing about the economy and the reasons for which it, as a whole, enjoys an unprecedented level of wealth and material comfort while working relatively little. The person who drives new cars, goes on foreign holidays, works 35 hours per week, pays about 20% effective tax rate and complains about public services and cuts is a pretty remarkable modern creation - "I pay [a tiny amount of] tax. Why cant I have £30k worth of services every year? And, while you are at it, please tax that rich guy over there a bit more so I can have some of his money to piss up the wall on a new diesel s tbox to drive me to pointless meetings about nothing".

anonymous said: [redacted] So, explain to me just why revenues 'have to be kept flat'? What about trying to reduce government 'spending'? There's a thought, eh?

anonymous said: [redacted] I very much doubt that anyone in employment pays only, or even near, 20% tax. You cannot ignore VAT, fuel duties across the range, SDLT, IHT, CT, NI..........the list goes on.

REALIST123 said: A 2007 GT3 is £225? My 2007 997S is £475. Yeah, good eh?! To be fair, it would be the full fat £500 for all other 997 GT3s in the country, just mine is a special case. I imported it from Dubai whilst moving back to the UK earlier this year, so it has an unclassified CO2 output and gets banded with the pre 2001 registered cars. So I get the most VED value on any GT3 in the country! Sweet!

REALIST123 said: It would appear that S1MMA has a 2007 GT3, which, from my research, carries a £500 per year tax. I stand to be corrected. See above as to reason why mine is less, the other 997 GT3 and beyond are all £500.

S1MMA said: So I get the most VED value on any GT3 in the country! Sweet! Except for mine, hehe

I don't think anyone ever believed that how much car tax we pay in the UK would have any bearing on global warming and ideed there has been no warming in near 20 years despite exponential increases in co2 so even the premise looks baseless. Anyong paying 500 quid a year has a right to be properly freaking angry (eg my 2007xjr, the gt2 is still 200-odd) no matter how "rich" they are. It's a criminal commie style confiscation of assets with no justification and anyone defending it needs a slap SM

pistolp said: No wonder we never see cars on the road. Just got my road tax through for this year and its 500 for the 4.0 If it makes you feel better, I have just paid £500 tax for a 3.6 GT3, you get 400cc more for free As a side note - its worth every penny to hear that flat 6 Mezger sing!!!

V8KSN said: If it makes you feel better, I have just paid £500 tax for a 3.6 GT3, you get 400cc more for free As a side note - its worth every penny to hear that flat 6 Mezger sing!!! Good man!

Harris_I said: S1MMA said: So I get the most VED value on any GT3 in the country! Sweet! Except for mine, hehe How much should yours be? You are in the pre march 2006 bracket right? So still it's not as good value as mine, I pay less than 50% of equivalent cars!

Yes just registered a V12 ( it was SORN for a few years ) only £200 or so 475 g ................... make those oil barons happy ........every time you pass a Benzina station it starts pulling to the slip road .... very thirsty girl !

S1MMA said: How much should yours be? You are in the pre march 2006 bracket right? So still it's not as good value as mine, I pay less than 50% of equivalent cars! Ah fair enough. I don't know how this Government Theft works to be honest. I just pay what they ask. Still, on a VED cost to power to weight on a Wednesday in May ratio basis, I am the winner!