The negatives are starting to outweigh the positive...

I bought this little red beauty Dec. 2018 after wanting something fun (and safer) to replace my Triumph Speed Triple which was taken out by a deer. I fell in love at first sight of this guards red beauty. I thought I did all my due diligence by researching issues here, having a PPI, and paying to replace the IMS bearing. But shortly after buying it I noticed signs of bore scoring. I swear once I picked the car up and started researching the soot/clanking, bore scoring took off on this forum. It was like an after-thought prior. Anyway, drove it 10K miles then finally opted for a rebuild. I have added just under 40K miles on it since purchasing. It sits just over 81,000 miles, of which 25,000 have been on the rebuild. The rebuild was not without it's issue and I had to take it back a few times for minor issues. Unfortunately it's still leaking oil and has become a bit worse as it's starting to now hit the floor. In addition to the leak, other issues (and a few wants) with the car off the top of my head: Key fob no longer working (need to send to ECU Doctors) Sunroof rattle Broken cup holder (have parts to fix) Some interior trim pieces missing or needing replacement Full suspension refresh Passenger side window is becoming misaligned (it sometimes catches when closing the door). I had to replace the window regulator a couple years ago, so this is is probably on me. HVAC blowing foam issue (not looking forward to that one) Crappy halogen headlights (want to upgrade) Driver's side floor mat holder no longer stays put (tried gluing and using carpet tape) Oil pressure instability (I see the pressure drop with all season tires on a decreasing radius off ramp I regularly hit on my commutes.) Number 10 and the oil leak bother me the most and the rest just piles on. I bought a Porsche because I've always loved them and have always read are solid track performers. But I've yet to take mine to track or even autox because I'm concerned about oil pressure (and maybe failing tech inspection because of leak). So, with all this on my mind, it's taken away from the enjoyment of this car. I'm considering selling it and buying a base 718 Cayman 6MT. I have ZERO issues with a boxer 4 (I've had Subaru's and always loved the sound). I just want a car I can enjoy, that I can track and autox, and do regular maintenance on it and maybe a few mods. Everything I'm reading about the 718s say they are solid on and off track. Then I wake up the next day and think I'm crazy to get rid of it, lol. I don't know the point of this post other than to think out loud. Maybe others here had similar experiences and can share their thoughts? Cylinder #6

Motor probably needs a reseal. My 3.6→4.0 rebuild had a leak in a similar location. Case halves. The shop I worked with thankfully had spectacular customer service, so it wasn't even a question. They *should* honor their shop warranty on labor for a reseal, what was the warranty term/mi limit? Oil pressure instability is solved with a UIDS. Everything else is just 23yr old car things. The question is, is it less expensive / annoying to trade into the 718? Or do you stick with your rebuild investment. Personally, I would stick with this car since you have already plowed pretty hard into it financially. Address the issues, and make it what you want it to be. $0.02

You're almost my doppleganger. I bought mine in 2020, had to have my engine torn down 18 months later due to an IMSB that was failing and starting to shed glitter (caught it in time). I've put 33K on the car since I bought it and 20K on the rebuild. This car had only done 37K miles in 21 years when I bought it and was in near perfect condition. Now there's lots of minor cosmetic stuff: paint chips on the front, chip on the wheels, calipers starting to look ratty. My drivers window lets air in and none of the normal adjustments have fixed it. The HVAC is to the point where it's done blowing foam and I need to dig in and fix that. And the front cowl is several shades too light. Oh, and the stereo speakers... And my other car is an Outback. I still want to keep the car. I take it on the track and to A/X. If I were you I'd buy the LN 2 qt deep sump and start autocrossing. It's not that hard on the car (brakes & tires are another story) and tech inspection won't catch an oil leak if it's just a few drips a day.

Yeah, they are all pushing 20-25 years and parts will break and need to be replaced or owners will have to decide if they want to pre-emptively replace them. As a 23 year owner of the same 996.2, I dont have a problem with pre-emptively replacing parts. But as a 60 year old, life becomes pretty simple when the kids are grown and you have time for a project that you deem worthwhile. To me it's worthwhile to keep the 996 in top shape. Christmas, birthday and father's day presents are usually 996 parts, because my family asks me what I want and the only thing I really want/need are parts for refresh items. But I am one of those guys that want to know that the car is in top condition to go to the track or drive from Chicago to Phila and back whenever I want. The key for me has been to set an annual pre-emptive refresh budget and checklist and take it each year at a time. Sorry to hear about the oil leak. May be a worthwhile exercise to talk to the engine builder to see what they have to say. We would all love to know. Best of luck with your 996 path.

As far as the oil leak goes, I took it back to my builder (1.5hrs away) to only be told "this isn't supposed to happen", "my guys have to get paid if we tear it down", "it's not spraying oil so just keep an eye on it", "just wipe up the drip prior to tech inspection". There's a local indy guy that replaced my clutch and fixed another leak (there was an oil line across the top of the heads that had a pinhole). I may have him take a look to very if it's leaking at the case split. As for the other stuff - well, a big part of this is the WAF (wife acceptance factor). I basically blew my budget on the engine rebuild. Now if I tell her I need a few thousand to spend so it doesn't blow up on track, WAF decreases. Oh, and another few thousand to refresh the suspension - WAF decreases more. I would rather spend that money getting myself into something newer with less issues. She basically said as much - "maybe we should cut our losses". But I do love driving it...

Ahhh, the WAF. I remember thinking several times "If I had a wife there's no way in hell I'd be able to do that engine rebuild."

For sure, the wife is a big part of it. She either is cool with it or not. My wife is cool with it knowing its an old car and I want to keep it and drive it. Since I track it, she wants to make sure everything is in good working order and safe. It helped that I took her out to the track one day to meet the guys and see what it was about. She saw all the money tied up in Porsches and parts at the track, understood that it was alot cheaper to keep my 996 in good shape than spending a boatload more on a newer model Porsche including the inevitable suspension, exhaust and engine upgrades that will need to be made. She even spent the day driving as a student to get a feel for the car on the track. While she wasnt as pumped up about driving the car on the track, she did enjoy sitting in the passenger seat with me at speed in the fastest run group for a number of sessions, experienced the speed, g-forces and sounds, and got why you want to keep the car in great shape and safe. No right or wrong answer on the path you take. Just lots of alternative options and choices. Best of luck on what you choose to do.

Never let the Wifey decide what car YOU get to drive ... When I bought Sally 17 years ago , I hid it from the Wife....The car had the engine in a basket when I bought it so I knew she would have a fit... She found out after a month and pitched a fit but I already had the engine fixed and back in the car... All it took for her to like the Porsche was a weekend trip to the " Tail of The Dragon" with some Porsche friends. she was A OK after that !!! .

Sounds like you've already made up your mind. There's a lot of joy in not fixing things and just driving. Go for it!

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First off, NOBODY like the Flyers! Cry me a river! I’d man-***** for a red 911 (mine is Cobalt Blue)! 1. My ignition was swapped so my ignition key isn’t the same as my door key and neither fob works! 2. Hard tops rattle more I assure you! 3. You have cup holders in yours? 4. Some interior pieces painted with non-matching Krylon. Hardtop panels different from interior, hardtop missing all covers. 5. Lowered track suspension amplifying everything! 6. Replace a window regulator? I need coils, shocks, antifreeze, brake fluid, vario & chains, etc. 7. HVAC blowing foam? They all do. At some point it will stop (win). 8. Old halogen headlights? Not a hard swap. 9. Floor mats are cheap. 10. IMHO temp is more important. If you’re that worried about it, install a gauge. Oil leaks? Oil is cheap! Something I read here was that NOTHING else is a 911. Period. Amen. A Cayman is NOT a 911, not even close. Despite the issues mine has, I’m as giddy as a school girl every @%$#ing time I drive it. You have a rebuilt motor with 81,000 miles. Mine is at 145,000 without a rebuild. I get the uneasy feeling about these stoopid 911s but, you got to pay to play. It must be a “Porsche thing” but I’d sell a kidney before I’d give up the pure joy I get driving mine. You asked…

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no wrong answer, but I did exactly this.😎

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Lol I won't lie this is my thinking also. Even though I am a fairly new owner, I purchased my 996 knowing that it needed an engine, suspension, brake work etc. When I sorted all of that I realized I don't like the tip as much as when I first brought it so manual swap it was. All the money spent goes out the window when I go for a drive. I don't even care anymore because I have other cars and projects but this one here just feels different.

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Glad you are back Skip! The wife doesn't decide what car I buy - I generally have the most influence, even for the cars she drives, lol. But when it comes to money she'd rather put it towards the house, vacations, and our daughters sports (gymnastics is friggin $$$$) then fixing fun toys (at least I got the rebuild in, haha). I think you meant Penguins. Nobody likes them. Regarding the floor mats - it's not the mats, it's the carpet. The hole for the retainer has grown and now the retainer won't stay put. I tried screwing in the retainer to a different part of the carpet and even used gorilla glue, but it eventually let go. Anyway, no, a Cayman isn't a 911. But in some circles they'll tell you the small mid-engine car is a better drive. Either way it's still a Porsche with a flat engine I think I might do a cost analysis of getting the 996 to where I want vs. selling and picking up a Cayman. Although I fear fixing the oil leak is going to take a big chunk of money because the engine would need to be torn down again...

Yeah, I would be a little POed knowing i would have to do the engine again. But I wouldn't be POed at the 996, I would be POed at myself for choosing the wrong builder.

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Sometimes you don't know you picked wrong until after the fact. There were a number of factors I weighed before choosing. If I'd have chooses the "popular" choice here, would have had to wait for over a year. My conversations with the builder before hand were all positive. I had no reason to believe I would have issues after the fact. The shop has campaigned numerous race cars with the M96 so knowledge of the engine wasn't an issue. Hindsight is 20/20.

My 996.1 purchased with 90k miles had most of the same issues when I bought it. However, since I didn't buy it as a daily driver, I slowly fixed the broken items and upgraded some parts (headlights to LED, Numeric shifter, etc...) to my liking over time, including a split the case engine rebuild. After the rebuild, I did have a leak from the IMS Solution that was installed but the builder took care of that. I'm still working on the car. On a a 26 year old car, there is always something breaking, cracking, leaking, creaking, tapping... Next up on the project list is a control arm replace for the front. After that, the rear. Then replace the suspension. If you do it in bite size pieces, it's not that bad. I actually find it therapeutic to wrench on the car on a rainy day.

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I hear you. Hindsight is always 20/20. Not giving you are hard time. Just commenting on how I would personally react with frustration about the situation.

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^^^ My thoughts exactly! Total bummer! I had three kids in gymnastics! Private gym USGA, so I�m very familiar with the costs�It all comes down to your attachment to the particular car - if it�s not love, you gotta dump it! Good luck with whatever decision you make

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not to hijack, but what color? she purdy.

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My 996.2 (@~36k mi)had a rebuild (spun rod bearing) in 2012 buy Engine Builder Supply co (Previous owner) before all the cylinder issues were known. That was rebuild 1. Rebuild 2 @ 48k - Knew this going into it, had an LN 4.0 done. Break in went bad due to some materials incompatibility. (sourcing things in the covid era was a challenge) Rebuild 3 @ 50K - Post break in failure, rebuild with diff rings/pistons. Covered under shop warranty. Low and behold, she came home with an oil leak. Rebuild 4 @ 58K - (more of a reseal) - The gentleman who built #3 was fired and replaced by a gentleman who was very very OCD. Covered by shop warranty. All is well now. Shop owner had the best customer service i could ever ask for. I am in Texas and he's located in Colorado. Personally transported the car back and forth on his own dime and everything for both 3 and 4. She pulls strong now

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That is an impressive amount of patience on your behalf! Glad the shop stood by their warranty and got things right.

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I tip my hat to you for patience! Heard all about the Covid material problems. Glad we are past that.

Well I just emailed the builder explaining the situation, which has been on-going since the rebuild (2022). I told him I don't want to drive 3 hours round trip just to be told to keep an eye on it again. I also mentioned that I'm considering selling it and will need to disclose the leak and will include the rebuild receipts which has his shop's name on it. I expect nothing so I won't be disappointed.

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What was their stated warranty on the engine rebuild?

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1 year. But the oil leaks started prior to warranty ending. He actually got back to me and wants more pics (which I'm sending tomorrow). Also asked where it's garaged - maybe he'll come get it, but I highly doubt it.

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For sure. Life costs and commitments are a big part of it!

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Carmine Red Pic is a bit filtered 😎 Thanks

A warranty is a warranty, and I think their response is absolutely unacceptable for the kind of money spent on a full rebuild.

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Correct, Bodymotion. Long story short - he sold the shop but still works there. Shop would not pay for bringing the car there (not even splitting the bill for flatbed like I offered). Then he told me he would look at it on "his time". I asked, "does that mean you are taking off the labor charge, because I will drive it there if that's the case" He said no. So at this point I will instead take it to my indy which is 20 minutes from me as I'd rather give him the money. I no longer would recommend Bodymotion.

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That truly sucks. Sorry man.

While this is a 996 forum and I have a 996.2 I love I must say that you should sell it and buy the Cayman. Got a Cayman -06 many years ago and it is a fab driver, especially on track. It seems like you want a more hassle free car and the 996 just isn�t, unless you are fortunate to find the good example. It�s one thing to spend money onnthe car but the time spent worrying about next project or time in the shop negates that. So that�s my advice. A Porsche is a Porsche. Good luck.

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I agree about a Porsche is a Porsche. If this brand "Porsche" doesn't fill your bill. check your boxes, provide what you just love, then get rid of it. I had P=cars for 35+ years, sold every thing quit. Recently, in "older age", I decided to find another P-car. For me, the 996 C4S was tops- lots of "Turbo" parts-features, no Turbo but has a gorgeous look and backend. - enough for me. I found a C4S, not perfect, but in 1 piece, no accidents, southern warm weather car, 100k miles of proven reliability, and a C4S. The aforementioned "WAF" problem was replaced by a "FWAF" who did not approve. (future) No Deal, period. I will keep this C4S as my last forever car. If it breaks or does anything stupid/smart - take your pick, I will keep it. One problem OP had was choosing someone to rebuild his 996 engine. I can name a few "P-shops" semi-near here who "can rebuild" a 996 engine. Good? Reliable? Warranty? All iffy. I may move elsewhere and want-need a 996 with a solid rebuild. So OK, choose LNE or Slakker. Who else does a high level rebuild + warranty? AFAIK none. So choose, $$ now or $$ later.+ PITA. Sure, a lot of $$. My forever car, my dream, WAF or FWAF either accepts or not, result the same - do it. Another thought to consider is what "flavor" of 996 do you have? A common ordinary 996 is a dime a dozen (so to speak), or at least a dime in 175000 made by Porsche. A GT3 or a 40 AE is much rarer, and only 17000 were C4S. What may/may-not be more desirable or valuable? You decide, your choice. For me, a 996.2 C4S was the answer. You may believe differently. I grant that a Cayman is terrific, but is a Cayman the Porsche you want? For me, absolutely not. It must be a 911, period. Remember when you buy a 20+ Y.O. car, you either put your hand in your pocket for $$$, or you hand in grease to maintain it. Outside of all of the warts and costs, my C4S always brings a smile to my face any time I drive anywhere - even to Walmart where it (not me) gets compliments.

Really sorry to read about your frustrating situation. It's such a pretty car you have too.

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Yeah, it always comes down to the condition and service history which determines the future service costs. You have the same engine issues with the 987 and the same preventative procedures. Both are easy to keep running and prevent any problems if it was serviced properly. Unfortunately the issue @merlot has is a problem with his rebuild. Looks like the rest of the car is in great shape. Lets keep our fingers crossed that the indy he is going to see can find a reasonable explanation and solution for the leak.

@merlot If you�re in the tri-state (close enough to be an hr and a half from Bodymotion), you may be able to get it towed for �free� with the $50/yearly AAA membership. You get up to 4x 100 mile tows a year and the shop that built my motor is exactly 95 miles away from me, which is to say I�ve confirmed that service works for distance. (Bad brand new OEM crank pos sensor. That was a weird week emotionally haha). I�d also maybe consider taking it to Speedsport in Danbury or PowerTech in Jersey before throwing more time/money/energy at another indy that may not really get the nuance of these silly cars and their silly rebuilt engines. Just my two cents, but I feel for you as a fellow rebuild owner.

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Yes, sure but he was talking about a 718 Cayman. A different ball game than a m9x engine and a much newer car. Buy that and have a nice sleep and more predictable expenses. And a proper good sports car!

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I stand corrected on it being a 718 and not a 987. I am a fan of all Porsches, old and new. But I will say this... Every Porsche will cost an arm and a leg to address issues and keep it running in top form. The only hope to contain service costs is to get one with an extended warranty and then get rid of it once the warranty expires, hoping that the depreciation cycle hasn't started. I can only imagine the service costs of a 20 year old 718 with all its technology. But we will find out in a few more years. But my comments dont mean its not a great car. It is. I have driven plenty of them on the track and am very impressed by its techno wizardry and comfort versus a 996. Same can be said for all of the 991s and 992s i've driven, which have the techno wizardry plus they are much more luxurios than the 996 and 718. All incredible cars. Comes down to what each individual is looking for and how willing they are to spend money and when. @merlot got a raw deal on his engine. I am upset for him. It would make anyone consider the cost of doing it again versus paying for a newer one a consideration.

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A coworker told me about the AAA free tows. I should join, thanks.

If you like the car and willing to keep it long term, then the real cost per year levels out. I've had mine for over 19 years and so far put about 160K miles on it myself. When I include the initial purchase price of the car ($82K) and all my maintenance and upgrades it comes out to less than $6K a year to own this car. If you jump ship, you have a whole new set of costs to factor in. You will take a hit with the rebuild costs and the little things you cited will diminish your resale. Unless you buy something new(er) with a warranty (original or CPO), you are still going to have unplanned expenses. This is the biggest problem with these cars—not having deep enough budgets to cover the unexpected. That's one of the biggest reason that sours ownership.