993 Sports Exhausts - FAO Steve-P - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hi Domster, Not really related to the thread, just wondered how you're enjoying life with the RS? And BTW, you appear to share a fascination with underpasses and tunnels along with some of the Ferrari boys: isn't it amazing the difference the exhaust mods can make aurally?

OK, so was that the price fitted, or for the parts only? I'm wondering if the usual thing is to order the parts by mail order and then get a local specialist to fit them, or indeed if the specialists can supply and fit. (Or if an OPC can/will supply and fit, come to that). I haven't sussed out the local independents yet (West Berks) but I am 25 miles from the OPC at Swindon and about 10 miles from AFN at Theale. I believe there is an specialist called Northway in Reading also, but they have an appalling unfinished web site that doesn't even give their address. No excuse for that in this day and age! Autofarm are probably in striking distance too. A bit of extra noise at cruising speeds on the motorway is not a problem at all. Anything that booms and resonates at certain frequencies is definitely out though, as that becomes irritating. It never occurred to me that different tailpipes might be needed for aesthetic reasons. The original ones could go back on I suppose, as I will be doing it for my benefit noise wise. What I mean is I don't really care whether other people realise it has a sports exhaust or not when it is parked, if you see what I mean. Maybe I should have a look at the small ads in 911 & Porsche World too.

Myself and Scottster are based in Bucks. He uses Northway (although may not again...) and I use Autofarm. In fact I am seeing them this lunchtime, so may ask for you. Scottster's system was price unfitted. He had it fitted at Northway. Hopefully, Scottster will pipe up soon and give us the benefit of his wisdom teeth. Derestrictor - the RS is an awesome car. I fancy the motec kit (320bhp, up from 270bhp) although I have the plate B10VVN, so quite fancy a Ruf RCT Evo turbo conversion. After all, the RS has perfect everything else, and the engine ain't bad anyway! Up to 425bhp, that one, at a cost of 15k. Ouch. Maybe I'll get an Ultima as planned. Re exhaust note, yes it does make a difference. My car sounds nice at idle, good at high revs and best on a fly-past! I may be joining the Ferrari boys on Sunday afternoon if you fancy it. Mail me off list, or look at the Ferrari thread (360 TUBI one). Cheers Domster

Another thinly disguised reference to a bad experience? Yes please - if you haven't already left.

Dom - £15k for 425bhp conversion? Sounds like uncommon fine value to me. What does your car weigh, 1100 kilos? You're potentially looking at 400bhp/tonne or there abouts - RoadRunner and I have been looning over this power to weight thing for some time but looking at what else you could buy, the value for money rating would be off the scale! And BTW, nice number plate! It really belongs on a Turbo: I can promise it'd have a good home...

Hi Guys Steve - I did ask, but Jack (v friendly owner of Autofarm) suggested I check the website! So here it is. 600 quid ex VAT fitted. The Hayward/Scott one may be 450, but fitting could be 75-100 on top, and those prices may be ex VAT, so all in all about on par with expectations. One thing though, is that my Autofarm had a non-rolled tail pipe - you may want to keep you rolled ones, as the tailpipes can look a bit boy-racerish and will cost you about 100 quid each. See what is included in the Autofarm price. Maybe haggle a bit and say I sent you! www.autofarm.co.uk/new.php3/perf.html The Northway reference is indeed thinly disguised, can't mention much in public (as ever) but there was a recent chink in Ray Northway's customer care programme. If you spend 1'000s with these guys over the years, you expect the odd little favour in return. To be honest, I think Scottster was just more impressed with Autofarm's attitude when he popped up to see them with me. I like JZ Machtech as well, but Autofarm are near to my work and will pick up/deliver for no cost. Lovely people, too. Derestrictor - the RS weighs 1190-1210, so say 1200kgs, give or take. The RUF conversion is just for the engine, and I think the price I gave was actually for the RCT conversion (380bhp) not the RCT Evo (425bhp). To be honest, after driving my car this lunchtime, I think the turbo would corrupt it. It is not overpowered at the moment and beautifully balanced. Adding turbos always adds the subtely of a sledgehammer to proceedings. More prop forward than prima ballerina. So I'll keep my 15k and spend 4k on Motec (320bhp) normally aspirated. The RS is made for corners, so missing out on absolute neck-crunching acceleration is no hardship. Not that it's slow. It heads for the redline with a seductive lunge! Re the plate, I am looking to sell it now that I have got rid of the Lotus Carlton I used to own. Silly money required from dotcom playboys, sensible money from enthusiasts with the right type of car that it deserves. It is currently on retention, so make me a sensible offer and it's yours. Otherwise I'll put it on the RS as it's easier to remember than the J year plate! Cheers Dom

Thanks for the link. I had already looked at it actually, but you didn't spot the sentence in the middle: "sound slightly quieter than a standard 993 system" Consequently I ignored it, as that is the opposite of the required effect! There was a more promising mod just above that one in the 964 section: "The rear sports bypass pipe alone is a popular choice, making the engine sound far more muscular at low revs but similar to standard noise levels at speed. £150 plus VAT" Presumably this won't fit the 993 though.

Aha, I missed that bit. Maybe the H&S system would be a better bet. I suppose it's the sound not the loudness... I don't think the 964 one fits, as it is a more of a complicated system on the 993. The 993 is a dual exhaust thingy, whereas the 964 only has one tailpipe. Cheers D

Sound quality and quantity are the key requirements. More power isn't a requirement, in fact if it was power neutral it would be a good thing. Then I wouldn't have to tell the insurance company about it. They're worried enough already!

I was just looking at their web site, and the single tailpipes for the 996 system appear to be flush with the bodywork: www.haywardandscott.co.uk/case2.htm The quad pipe system on the top car doesn't look all that good though IMO. I have emailed them with a request for info, prices, options etc.

Do you mean 993? 996 is the new water cooled jobby. Scottster may have just ened up with the wrong tail pipes. His aren't flush and it annoyed him a bit.

Yes, what I meant was that the exit pipes may be similar, so the tailpipes for the 993 system may now also be flush with the car. It is possible that you can choose the tailpipes when you order. We will see, when they reply to my email. These guys certainly have a hell of a lot of parts and accessories listed for 911s: www.type-911.co.uk/home.htm These tailpipes don't look at all bad, even though they aren't flush: By the way, the owner of this car is called Wai-Bin Lai - check out the cool reg number!

Those are the tail pipes Scottster has. Don't sit flush, but as you say, they look OK. Horses for courses and all that. Maybe keep standard ones?

Ha, Jack at Autofarm is a cheeky old devil asking you to check the website ref the 993 exhausts, I did all that section of the web site over a year ago & it seems he has not done too much more research on the subject since then! IMHO few of the exhausts actually make the 993 any louder no matter who you buy it from. What does make a difference is sport cats, or actually removing the cat and using a cat replacement pipe. (you 'might' be able to get an MOT without a cat if you engine is well tuned & you have a friendly MOT tester. If you fit sport cats make sure that the car has been on a fast run and the exhausts are toasty hot before the emmisions part of the MOT test or it may fail as they need to be very hot to actually work properly. HW & Scott stuff seems well made but usually there is quite a long lead time on their stuff. Rook stuff seems well made & lots of the specialists use their stuff, fabspeed is popular too.

I've had a reply from Hayward & Scott which reads: "We replace the side boxes with straight through ones that gives the nice deep sound without being over noisy. The price is £450 + del/fitting and VAT. You can use your standard tail pipes, or have some larger ones for £250." You don't get any tailpipes according to this, so keeping the original ones would probably be the best option.

I would defo keep standard tail pipes. Lovely sound though - 450 ex VAT well spent.

I love it in the ear!

The stainless steel tailpipes in the picture above only cost £105 the pair anyway, so I certainly wouldn't be buying the H&S ones at £250! I expect I will just retain the standard ones.

You can check the Tubi here guys - if you save the file to disk and then look then the picture is bigger: www31.tok2.com/home/tubistylejapan1/tubiporsche.htm Picture is property of Tubi Style Japan >> Edited by manu on Friday 23 August 13:20

More info on the Hayward & Scott system: "They can be fitted in a couple hours it all depends on the time it takes to get your old one off. There might be a BHP gain but not much as you still have the cats on the car. Delivery at the moment is 6-8 weeks!" I guess I should probably hear one fitted to a 993 first. Then provided it sounds OK, I will order one and maybe get Northway to fit it, since they are only about 6 miles from me.

It is worth considering the Tubi system. You will need to book Northway a long time in advance, at least a couple of weeks. Ray is a nice chap, they just lack the ultimate customer care that some Porsche independents are providing these days, IMHO. Cheers Dom

I can't find much info on Tubi on the internet except in relation to those pesky red things. I looked at the picture in the previous link but my Japanese isn't too good unfortunately. German is a bit easier and Ruf do a Klappenauspuffanlage mit TÜV Mod. 96 at: http://shop.ruf-automobiles.com/catalog_view.ruf?part=143 but even though it purports to be an online shop, there seems to be no price, nor any way of buying it! TechArt do several systems too: www.techart.de/Techart_Katalog%20993_Englisch/Exhaust_System993.htm I can't find any prices on these from UK suppliers, or the Ruf one either for that matter.

Here's another system from the US, this does look nice: www.fabspeed.com/993.html Not sure about the shipping cost or lead time though.

Manu can get hold of them, as he is an aftermarket exhaust dealer. He got me a quote on a Ruf bypass pipe. Hopefully he would do 'PH' rates for you, too! Maybe send him an email off line. Cheers Dom

My system isn't a H&S one as Domster thought but is indeed that very one pictured from Type 911. Matt is a nice guy and quite helpful. The exhaust is very raw, perhaps too much for most 993 drivers but I come from the Cherry Bomb school of exhaust notes so love it. It's very loud, even a bit tractorish at idle but sounds great when being thrashed. No nasty resonance at any revs and totally fine for cruising. I don't like the tips cos they aren't cut at the right angle for the bumper. Would just look classier if they had the original angle. They also yellowed quickly - if I wanted that I'd keep the originals and get some Hammerite to them. My advice, if you want loud and fun get the exhaust from them but source the tailpipes elsewhere. I'm a bit of a fan or the squarer C4 pipes actually.

Since there is likely to be a considerable lead time for whatever I go with, I will probably take my time to decide. I like the look of the Fabspeed one actually, but it is pretty expensive. Probably prohibitively so with shipping, import duty, VAT etc on top.

They claim a power increase so did you tell your insurance company about it, and if so, did they load your premium?

Scottster has trade insurance, which is not car specific. Therefore, as long as the value of the car doesn't exceed his agreed value 'ceiling' the car is insured. Not like normal policies. On a 'normal policy', I would suggest informing the insurers just in case. There is no noticeable performance benefit, but it is worth doing as it sounds fantastic. >> Edited by domster on Wednesday 28th August 12:07

Agreed, if they claim any extra power then I would like to see them put their wallets where their mouths are and let you pay for it only after seeing extra ponies on the rolling road - I guarantee you'll see none but the noise will make you think there's an extra 50!!

The problem is that I don't especially want a power increase. If the only difference is the noise level, then I don't think the insurance company needs to know about it. I probably would tell them, but they would be unlikely to care. However they were twitchy enough about taking the car on in the first place so a power gain (even if only claimed) might be a problem.

Keep the original tailpipes and I'm sure they'd never tell. Previous owner could have fitted it.

Good idea!

Steve, WE need to have a chat about this, i am thinking the same as you, not bothered about more power but want a bit of "fruit" without resonance. Perhaps if we buy 2 someone will give us a discount? Worth a try? Pete Purple C4S

Good idea, although so far all of them claim extra power in varying degrees. One thing possibly worth pursuing is the Porsche OEM sports exhaust that was part of the "Motor Sound" option. Since this is an OEM replacement which could well have been fitted from new without the insurance people caring, they probably wouldn't need to know about it. Does anyone here have the official 993 "Motor Sound" option, and if so, what is it like sound-wise? Was this option just different silencers, or were there other differences such as the airbox?

I've seen an ad recently for a cup airbox, where they show you the standard airbox and the motorsound airbox for comparison, so it is a little different. Did look very similar in the picture though... www.fabspeed.com/993.html (about halway down the page)

I really like the look of the Fabspeed bits and would certainly give them a try. When I bought my exhaust/air box bits I was going into it a bit blind and had a few probs/wasn't impressed by some results. They've answered all the questions I had and more. Sounds good!

Guys, check out http://p-car.com and look at the RSR exhaust/muffler. Have been in touch with one of his european customers. Comments on his testimonials page, as well as from dozens of people on the Rennsport board, say all i need to hear. For 400 euros i can't go wrong. P.S. Sorry for the long post...

They aren't stainless steel, which is one reason why they are cheaper. IIRC they are standard silencers that have had their innards replaced. (Perfect for feigning innocence with the insurance company). I had spotted this already, but not found a UK price yet. Who is the supplier at 400 Euros, is that an exchange price or an outright purchase, what about shipping, duty, VAT etc? I am still looking too.

Steve, They ARE stainless steel. I put new brake pads in the back of mine yesterday evening and while i was there got my autoglym out and sure enough my standard Porsche silencers are stainless. I suspect yours are too. They cut them open at a factory seam, remove a small part of the exhaust metalwork internally, then weld them back again very carefully to look as close to stock as possible. The belgian distributor is listed on the website and the 400 euros is exchange. Basically Gert (Belgium) sends you a pair of silencers, you try them for 2 or 3 weeks, if you are happy you send him 400 euros and your old silencers. If not then you just send his silencers back. It's that simple. You can't lose. Should be no more than an hour to two hours work to swap them over, i had a good look last night and reckon one hour tops, but these things always take twice as long as you think they will.....

It took me an hour each side and there are a few tricky areas, mail me or call offline if you want to know exactly what to do. It's not as easy as it looks but isn't that bad - You should also be prepared to get new straps too, they often break but your old ones 'may' be ok, luck of the draw etc. They're another £90 and your car will be out of action for a week Porsche GB get you some if you don't have them. Dave

Thanks Scottster, i may well take you up on that. I reckon i might get outside later and see if the straps look knackered or not, and if not then maybe try and loosen them off the exhausts a little bit. Figure out if i need to buy news ones first. I can't really afford to be without the car for a week, i guess i could borrow my mate's Skyline if necessary...

Well, i fitted a motorsound airbox cover a couple of weeks ago and fitted my RSR exhausts today. Can't recommend them enough. First impressions are fantastic, not too loud, VERY fruity, pops on the overrun and a proper howl after 4500 rpm. Cheap too... 400 euros. Well impressed - any 993 owners wanting a listen to them feel free to get in touch. Best, Pete 96 C4S

Sorry to jump on this thread but I also recommend the RSR mufflers. They are made by a chap in the US called Robin Sun and distributed within Europe by Gert Carnewal. They are, as mentioned above, standard mufflers that are laser cut, 'played with' and then TIG welded back together again. The welding is as good as the original factory job. The Mufflers look stock and sound fantastic. Gert can also supply Chrome Tips and is a real pleasure to deal with. Ross '97 Carrera S RSR Mufflers

New thread as the Oil one was going O/T. Scottster fitted a Hayward/Scott system to his 993 Carrera - sounds fantastic. Cost was £450 or thereabouts. He wasn't overly happy with tailpipes though, so maybe consider sourcing them separately. They weren't 'angled' to fit flush with the boat-tailed rear, and started to yellow quite quickly. He also got an upgraded air box (you can *just* hear the difference to the induction noise) but at £80 it was a lot of money for what was effectively a few extra (easily-drilled) holes in the existing one. Tuning by Herr Black and Herr Dekker, if you see what I mean.